TSRB Podcast 069 - Building A Home Studio On A Budget - Part 2

[00:00:00] Benedikt: [00:00:00] You're excited. You want to set up your home studio, you're connecting everything. And then there's one critical piece missing. That's like three bucks, but you just haven't ordered it. And now you can use this stuff.

This is the self recording band podcast. The show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are, DIY stuff. Let's go.

Hello and welcome to. The self recording band podcast. I am your host Benedictine, and I'm here with my friend and cohost Malcolm Owen flood. How are you? Malcolm? Amen. I'm 

Malcom: [00:00:38] good. I'm very good. I got lost in the woods yesterday and I am sore and tired from Kenny. Got lost in the woods. Yeah. I went on a trail run and I just kind of found this random route online.

That looked pretty fun and pretty long it was like 10 K. Um, And it turns out some of those trails don't exist anymore. And I just kinda like came into [00:01:00] this log area and I was like, well, I bet it's just on the other side of this logged area. So I like hiked through the logging cutoff and then into the worst coast.

There's no chair. On the other side, I was never, I never really felt lost. I was pretty positive. I could find my way. Back to the world. Um, but I was like, I came through just pure woods, no trails for like 30, 40 minutes. That's great. 

Benedikt: [00:01:25] Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes this is sometimes you find the coolest spots that way, or the coolest trails that way.

Sometimes you're just hoping to get back as soon as possible. 

Malcom: [00:01:35] Yeah. It was like 20 minutes into the middle of nowhere and my phones, uh, data ran out and I was like, oh, I don't even have a map anymore. 

Benedikt: [00:01:43] Oh, that sucks. Oh yeah. That really sucks. Do you have any, any like dangerous animals or anything? Well, 

Malcom: [00:01:51] technically yes.

And actually there's been sightings pretty recently, so I should have been more careful. We have bears and cougars cougars. Um, [00:02:00] but like it's, it's pretty far-fetched that you'll run into one around here. I mean, it does happen, but, um, definitely. Not very often. And then they're not as scary as people think either.

Like they like to stay away from you generally. So it's usually fine. I'm I'm never really bored. 

Benedikt: [00:02:19] Yeah. I saw this crazy video recently of this runner who. Who came, like he, I think he found baby cougars and then the mother showed up and yes. And like, it was, I dunno, I'd to take a 10 minute video or so, and the mother was chasing him.

Malcom: [00:02:37] Very, very scary. Yeah. Yeah. So that would be the worst. Yeah, it hasn't happened fortunately. Yeah. Oh yeah. That poor guy 

Benedikt: [00:02:46] or we don't have anything like that. Here. There are a couple of wolfs. I think they are back, but. People never really see them. And then, yeah, Boris boys is pretty much the most dangerous thing around, 

Malcom: [00:02:58] but yeah.

Yeah. We don't [00:03:00] have bores. We do have elk. Um, but they're uh, they're, they're fine. Um, Yeah. If we have any Australians listening to our podcast there, this funny thing where Australians moved to Whistler, big ski town near, near us, somewhat near us. And I've had this conversation with so many Australians and they just are terrified.

Of the animals here, like bears and stuff like that. Like just think we're nuts for being willing to go outside with those things. Walking around Australia, Australia, Australia has like the most terrified wildlife in the world. No questions asked 

Benedikt: [00:03:37] everything. Try to kill you. Like 

Malcom: [00:03:41] totally, totally. It's it's.

Yeah. And I've had this conversation with multiple Australians and all my friends have had it too. They just think bears are terrifying. Them really bears are fine. They, they want to rubbish to your garbage maybe. But yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:03:56] I wouldn't go. Like I would go nowhere [00:04:00] without a guide in Australia problem probably, but yeah.

That's 

Malcom: [00:04:05] whatever you're used to. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:04:08] Okay. So, um, yeah, this week, It's part two of what we started 

Malcom: [00:04:13] last week. Yes. If you don't remember, we were talking about the gear. You can get on a budget to have a good recording studio. And we're talking about this because obviously there's a ton of gear out there I'm available and there's always new stuff coming out and Benny and I probably are more into gear than we should be.

And we've tried a lot of it and we thought. Uh, that our advice would probably be helpful in, in helping people steer towards like gear that we know is great and not too expensive, just so you're not buying something and having to replace it down the road. That is kind of the goal here. 

Benedikt: [00:04:49] Exactly. And if you want to have a list of things that we recommend, you can go to the surf recording band.com/gear guide and download a PDF gear guide.

That's [00:05:00] well-structured and, um, yeah, it gives you a starting point, a list of things you need. It kind of also explains like priorities or the hierarchy of gear, if you also, uh, so, you know, what's more important. What's less important when it comes to, for example, choosing the right interface and stuff like that.

So it's a pretty neat, um, short, easy to. Consume PDF guide that will help you quickly go to the self recording, pant.com/gear guide and download that completely for free. And you can also go to the show notes page of this episode and the last episode. So if you go to the self recording band.com/ 68 or slash 69, it works just the same for every single episode.

Then you'll find the show notes to these episodes. And we're also going to list the stuff that we are mentioning in these episodes. Therefore, you, so you don't have to take notes. You still can, but it's all going to be in the show 

Malcom: [00:05:50] notes. Well, to quickly recap, last week we talked about microphones, the eyes and the interface.

Um, I'm sure other stuff kind of came up [00:06:00] in passing, but that was really the three topics we covered. Uh, so that was kind of like, you know, going from the instrument into a mic. Into an interface. And now we are on the other side where we are looking at monitoring and stuff in the computer and 

Benedikt: [00:06:15] what not exactly.

So let's start with the computer actually, because that's the next part of the, of the chain. If you will, like we are, we have covered interfaces. Now the audio is in the computer. I think we, we shouldn't go into computer specs and stuff like that because. I think that it doesn't really matter if you, if your main thing is that you want to record every decent computer from the last five to 10 years, I think we'll do the job.

The more you get into mixing and running a lot of plugins and stuff, the better the computer needs to be, but I don't want to go get it to the whole PC versus Mac debate and whatever, like just use whatever computer you have. And if it's too slow, get a new one. But that's not the, that's usually not the bottleneck if you're recording.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:06:58] That's a really good point though. Is [00:07:00] that for just recording it? You don't have to spend that much money. Um, where for mixing, you have to spend a fortune, it's a good distinguishing thing. Um, but you should be at least aware of what you need to do with some mini instruments and stuff like that.

That would be the only thing that I could see really coming to bite you is not being up to run the BSTs. You want them or not? And that app Sims can be a little CPU heavy as well, I guess. 

Benedikt: [00:07:25] Yeah, that's true. That's true. What you have to have though is you have to have a doll. That's the software where that you use to record your audio.

Like it's the program you run to record and or mix edit, whatever you want to do with it. And when it comes to dos, DWS stands for digital audio workstation. It's a matter of personal preference and workflow more than anything, I think. Unless you go with a very, very basic entry-level doll. Like you, you could in theory, use garage band, like garage band, or what else is there audacity or some of those very like free or very cheap [00:08:00] doors they can work to get started, but we would highly recommend choosing one of the major doors.

Whatever is the one that you want to work with. There are light versions of those that you can try, but we would, I, I at least would say that either go with. Logic Cubase pro tools or Ableton, depending on the Ray genre, you're recording Ableton. This is really cool for electronic stuff. We wouldn't recommend it for band stuff, I think.

But if, whether you go with like Cubase logic or pro tools or Reaper, Reaper's great as well and cheap, all of those will get the chop down. They have different feature sets, different workflows, but it's the most important thing is your personal preference and, um, what you're used to or whatever you like, but they don't sound different.

They. Um, they have all the functions, the basic functionality that you could ever need to record your band. So it doesn't really matter. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:08:51] It's, it's really probably the most commonly over-thought element of the recording setup is like, uh, which one should I get? And you end up not getting [00:09:00] good at any of them.

Cause you keep changing. Just really choose one. Um, I might just recommend that you get a full version of something, not like the pro tools first. I think it's called or something like that, where it's like. It's just, uh, a really limited piece of junk. Um, and yeah, and the Ableton has a, like Ellie as well that I wouldn't recommend us choosing, like, you know, just get something that is, you've got it.

And you've got everything you need. Um, Really Reaper is hard to beat in that regard where it's free and it can do everything. Yes. It's definitely not my favorite, but like I know people that use it professionally and 

Benedikt: [00:09:38] they're awesome. Yes. I have to say though, that the Cubase artists and Cubase element versions are pretty cool.

They have like limitations when it comes to Trek count and some other things, but. They work really well. Um, so you can start and see if, if the Cubist workflow is for you. And if so, you can buy the full version. If not, you can switch to someone else or is there something else? So I can recommend these, but again, like [00:10:00] we're talking, even if you go, like when you buy the most expensive version of those software programs, you're looking at, I don't know, 500, $600 or something like that, or I don't know, like at least in euros, it's 400, 500 euros.

And I don't know. I think it's worth spending that money if you're serious. Like if you're making a record, especially an album, or if you're at all like ambitious, want to sell records or want to make competitive records, then spending those, those dollars is money well spent. I think, yeah. 

Malcom: [00:10:29] Another bit of advice I just thought of is maybe look at where you're planning to learn about your doll.

Um, like if you have a favorite YouTube or you're already following for how to operate a doll, You want to use the same to other using right. Cause like, otherwise it, that it's not gonna be helpful. Um, if you're, if you have Benny's course the self recording band course, and you're following along anything in there, that's not really about DoStuff necessarily, but I'm sure there's some stuff in there then you're going to want to Cubase.

Right. Um, it's just, it's going to be [00:11:00] easier for you to follow along in situations like that. Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:11:02] Agreed. Agreed. Okay. So choose whatever you you think is right for you. Maybe start with the free Reaper. And  like with the test version of Reaper, see if that works, if so spent the 60 bucks or whatever, or 200 for the professional license or whatever it is, and stick with that or change to something else.

But that's a really cool thing. A place to start. I think I would start with that if I would 

Malcom: [00:11:25] do it again. I think so too. It's just like so easy to get into. Um, one more advice though. Yeah. I learned so much about my dog from being shown things by other people like hands-on. So if you have a band mate, that's not half bad at a doll.

Maybe go in with whatever they're already using. You know, like the collaboration between bandmates on the same door is definitely a hand. 

Benedikt: [00:11:46] Yes, yes. And, uh, maybe we should, and then we should move on, but maybe we should also say again, that garage band is. Cool for demos or like capturing ideas, but it's not really professional doll for many [00:12:00] reasons.

And as soon as you start working with other people have mixed engineers, and if you want to transfer files to someone else, it's going to be, it's a real pain. It's a real pain. I've been working with a bunch of people who use garage band and they were trying to get the files over to me. And it's just.

It's not cool, like locating the WAV files and MIDI files and figuring out how to do 24 bit or whatever. It's, it's just the pain and, uh, it's compatible with lunch. So that's a work around, but still it's I wouldn't recommend it. 

Malcom: [00:12:29] Yeah. I mean, Again, it's if you're just like starting and want to just be recording today and you've already gotten your computer, it's it is awesome for that.

It's really like a fun program to use. Um, but as soon as you, like, if you like it at all, you just get logic. Yeah. Just like, yeah. It is just a dumb version of okay. Yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:12:48] yeah, yeah. Totally. All right. So you're in the door. You have recorded stuff, you've edited it or not. You are, um, Do you want to listen to what, what you've recorded [00:13:00] and you want to make sure that you want to do you want to be able to do a quality check, quality control, even if someone else is going to be editing or mixing it, you'd still need to hear what you're recording.

You need to hear what you're exporting, what you're comping. You need some, some sort of reliable monitoring. And even if you're not mixing, you need monitoring that you can trust. You need something that you can learn. Um, and, and, um, yeah, that's, that's, I think the most important thing you need to learn what you're monitoring, whatever you use sounds like.

So that could be a room with speakers, but that's going to be the most flawed it's the, the room is going to be, every room has problems and it's going to be pretty problematic. The speakers, if you're not spending a whole lot of money will be pretty problematic or not flat at least, and not really a reliable, um, thing.

And so the. Best thing you can buy for a budget on a budget are headphones. I think. 

Malcom: [00:13:57] Yeah. I agree. Even though it's the exact [00:14:00] opposite of my workflow, I. Totally agree. This is the best for 99% of bands over there. Yes. 

Benedikt: [00:14:05] So get speakers just so you can listen in the same room together with your bandmates. So you have something everyone can listen on and you don't have to wear headphones all day, which is very fatiguing as well.

So just get some speakers, but don't see them as the reliable, uh, tool that you, that, that shows you all of the problems because they likely won't like the thing you're going to be listening for. Like really detailed stuff. And when it comes to, to making first mixing moves or to really judge the quality of your recordings, use headphones for that.

And there are a couple of models that are just tried and true that are tested and, and that people use. A lot for professional mixing, but also for tracking that we can recommend, and there are closed and open models. That's the main difference between, or those are the two camps basically. And then there are different models and manufacturers, [00:15:00] of course, but maybe let's, let's explain real quick what the difference is between closed and open and why you should get one.

Malcom: [00:15:06] Right? Well, a closed headphone is probably what. We're going to recommend first, um, because a closed headphone is exactly that it is closed around your head and around your ears. It does not let sound out. So if you're hearing a click track, you don't want the microphone in front of you to hear that click track, right?

You don't want the headphones to bleed into the mic that you're recording with, uh, in the case of vocals or acoustic guitar, that's very possible. Um, Not really a problem. If you're playing electric guitar died into your computer though. Right. Stuff like that. Um, so yeah, close your headphones are sealed and they're, they're, they're going to limit bleed.

Um, also handy if you're in a noisy environment, cause it just kind of also keeps noise out, you know? So the ambient noise of your environment, isn't going to get into what you hear because you kind of closed in with these headphones. Um, so for most people, that's where you want to start. Um, and [00:16:00] then open your headphones breathe.

They, they will let sound out and in, um, it's a much more natural listening experience. Um, I think most people think they sound better. I do myself. Uh it's it's more like you have two speakers in front of you again, but they're just attached to the side of your head. 

Benedikt: [00:16:19] Yeah. Yeah. It's true that they are less fatiguing.

I think most of them are more comfortable than the closed ones. So I agree. I still do enjoy. My buyers that I wear I'm wearing right now, the DT 77, 70 pros. They are close. They are pretty popular model. I only like them with sonar works though, because they are not flat at all. They have a very high top end, but with Sona works, I just like the way they sounded like the way the transients sound and I can mix pretty well with those.

I just like them maybe because I'm just used to them. So they are close that I still think they are comfortable enough to be working with them. Um, yeah, for extended periods of time. But, um, [00:17:00] other than that, a lot of people, including Uma come half the Sennheisers, the HD six 50 or six 60 models. Mm, and they are probably the flattest models you can get, at least for that sort of money.

Like you can spend a lot more money and get something better, like RDCs or stuff like that. But for on a budget, I don't think it gets any more accurate than those. And they apparently are pretty comfortable as well. Right. They're so 

Malcom: [00:17:23] comfortable. It's like clouds on my head. It's awesome. Um, they are open headphones.

I want to add a very popular, a lot of people even mix with them, like full on. That's what they do. Most of their mixing on, which is pretty awesome. Um, that that's even possible. Yeah, I would definitely recommend them. Um, we have little questions. We didn't in our notes here. Do you need two pairs? I do, but I don't think our listeners do.

I think for tracking, you could probably get away with just the closed headphones. If you're not using any mix. You could get away with just one open headphone you don't really need to, but, uh, so start with a good set of closed headphones. And then if you want [00:18:00] down the down the line, you, you know, you can grab another set of open ears.

It's nice to have something to switch it up with. It's a nice to have something to reference on as well. Um, but not a mandatory thing. So for like the keeping the budget low, the minimum viable product of getting the studio going, you don't need two sets of 

Benedikt: [00:18:16] headphones. Yes, exactly. Um, pretty cool. I don't know if other manufacturers do that as well, but I use and really love, although audio headphones, they are a Slovenian brand or European brand.

They make like handmade headphones. They are made of metal and wood. They look gorgeous, you can replace all the parts in them. They are made so that you can easily repair them. And they. Half this thing where you buy them as open headphones, but you can make them close. They are not super close. It's not the same as like rum headphones or make, if you play loud drums with them, it's not really working, but they are close enough to use it vocal tracking or like, yeah.

Th they work well for most things and you can just make the headphones closed by [00:19:00] changing the plates on them and inserting like a foam piece. Like you, you just. Unscrew those plates, you put the foam in there and you put a different plate on and then they're closed. So that's pretty cool. I don't know if are the other brands do that as well, but my, all those do it and I love them.

They're super comfortable. They sound awesome. They look very nice. They have little to no plastic in them. It's like on food and metal and awesome sort of 

Malcom: [00:19:24] cool. Yeah, they, and they look really neat, man, when you showed them to me, I kind of want some for no reason other than, than that. I want some, 

Benedikt: [00:19:30] yeah.

Yeah. The reason I don't use them now for the podcast is simply because I'm too lazy sometimes to change those plates. And when they're open, I just, I'm just afraid that I'm going to have like bleed in my microphone. So I just go with the close buyers for that, but yeah, I still love them and uh, I can, I use them for mixing as well.

So. There's that. And then there's a whole new category of headphones out there have been plugins for that for a while now, but they're not, they haven't been that [00:20:00] popular, I think. But now there are headphones that come with a software. That are muddling headphones, like the slate muddling headphones, for example, I don't know if there are others, but the slate ones, um, got released last year, I think.

And I haven't tried them, but I know a couple of people who by them. I know others as well, who don't like them, so I don't want to recommend them as I have try him personally, but it sure is an interesting product. So. Out the way they work is you have a pair of, I assume, pretty flat sounding headphones.

And then you have a software where you can choose your listening environment. You can choose to be in a mixing room or in a car or on a certain model of headphones or whatever. And, um, that's what they are supposed to sound like. Then I don't know how well it works as I said, but I know some people who.

Work, exclusively on them now. And yeah, I think it's a pretty neat concept. And especially for DIY people, I, I probably would give it a shot and see if it works [00:21:00] also like the, the, the ability to check it in different environments. If that's really working, this could be really interesting because it will save you the car check and stuff like that.

So, yeah, maybe. Try them out, or if you already use them, let us know how you like them. It's interesting. And I'm sure they're going to be more products like that. 

Malcom: [00:21:18] Yeah. I was really kind of taken aback by the amount of positive reviews that, because I just kind of have been watching the opinions online and it seems like the majority of people are quite pleased with their purchase on those, those headphones.

Um, but again, neither Benny or I have tried them, so can't really personally recommend them. Um, but worth looking into, uh, I'd be doing all of the Canadian. Recording people a disservice, if I didn't mention the Audio-Technica, uh, 80, 50 Xs, I think 

Benedikt: [00:21:47] they're called. Why is that a Canadian thing? Uh, 

Malcom: [00:21:49] well, I don't know if it is a Canadian thing, but I was surprised that you hadn't mentioned them.

Um, so yeah, the, the model number is the ath M 50 X. That is the most popular one anyways, but they, like, [00:22:00] I have never gone into a studio that doesn't have like five sets of those really in north America. They're like, they are the standard over here just by a long shot. Um, that's what everybody has. And every bedroom producer also uses those around 

Benedikt: [00:22:15] here.

I think our equivalent here is the, are the buyers, the DT seven seventies or cool. 

Malcom: [00:22:22] I was wondering if, if we just had like different go-tos 

Benedikt: [00:22:27] I did technical are popular as well. I know them I've seen them, but it's not the first thing that comes to mind. Like most people I'm pretty sure the buyers are. If I look at the two-man website, like the.

The biggest music store in Europe. Um, if you look in there and you, you check the best sellers lists, those buyers are, I think top 10 overall products or so not, not even headphones, but like everyone has them. So, yeah. 

Malcom: [00:22:52] That's awesome. Yeah. I just wanted to mention them cause, uh, yeah, I know that a lot of the Canadian listeners probably already have them and I don't want to devalidate their [00:23:00] purchase.

They're great. 

Benedikt: [00:23:01] Awesome. Cool. Yeah. Whatever works for you. I mean, when it comes to monitoring. Um, whether you're looking at monitors or headphones, it's a very subjective thing too. So there are some tried and true things. And again, it comes to, this comes down to brand trust and reliability and, um, yeah, there are a certain quality, all these qualities that these things should have, but at the end of the day, if you don't like how they sound, you don't like how they sound.

So it's, it's a personal preference. And with speakers, your room is important as well. So a set of speakers that works very well for me here. Might not work at all in a different room. And I think if you're buying speakers, unless it's just for like listening together in a room, then it doesn't really matter as much.

But if you really want to, if you really want to invest in a good pair of speakers that you want to work on for a long time, I think there's no way around. Testing them in your environment, you need to purchase them or borrow them, see how they sound, work on them for a couple of days and then decide if they are [00:24:00] right for you or not.

There's no way around that. Like, even if you listen to them on, in the store, it's, it's going to be totally different in your room. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:24:06] Insanely different. It's a, it's almost pointless to listen to them in a different environment. Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:24:11] Yeah. And any, yeah. Of the big companies there. If you buy like expensive monitors, any of them will probably let you test them or any of the big stores will do that as well.

Do you have some sort of money back guarantee or trial period or whatever? Yeah, it's kind 

Malcom: [00:24:26] of part of it. Um, Yeah. I remember I reached out to Amphion once I was pretty dead set on getting them, I didn't end up doing it, but, uh, I emailed and they were like, yeah, let's get you a sack. And it's like, well, these are like, it's almost $10,000 worth of speakers.

They would be sending me just to try out, you know, like, did they even check my Facebook page to see if I'm a real person? 

Benedikt: [00:24:48] Yeah. I mean, if you buy a car, you test drive it. Right. And it's like, yep. Totally sensing. So yeah, when it comes to monitors, there are some recommendations that we can give you based on our own experience.

But again, [00:25:00] there are much more, many more out there and it's very subjective. I think you use and love them, right? I 

Malcom: [00:25:05] do. Yup. That's where I ended up going instead of the ambulance. 

Benedikt: [00:25:09] I think they have cheaper models as well. You have the big three tens, I think they're called. Yep. 

Malcom: [00:25:14] And I upgraded from the cage one twenties, which are the smaller ones.

Um, and those are also very good. I mean, like, honestly, I think they're the. The best speaker in their price range, because they're like, I think a pair of them was like 13, 1400 bucks Canadian, which is, you know, very affordable. Um, and, uh, they really got me far, nothing but good things to say about that now that I would say is kind of like in the intermediate price range, um, where our listeners.

Who are just looking for speakers just to, you know, just like penny said, just so you can hear it as a group. You know, it's just easier to communicate rather than one person be able to hear the music with headphones and nobody else can hear what's going on. You need some speakers, so people can tell what's going on.

Um, that, you know, [00:26:00] that's not, that's a little overkill go on with those. Right. So what we would probably recommend. In that lower price range under a thousand dollars is the Yamaha H S sevens. I think they are. Um, and they actually, they have a couple of different sizes and they'd all be fine. 

Benedikt: [00:26:15] Five, seven, eight, I think they're, yeah, 

Malcom: [00:26:18] they're, they're just, you've seen them.

They're very popular and they're really like, they're pretty good. Um, I like them. I, every time I've gone in front of them, I've been like, yeah, this is going to be fine. Um, and then the other brand that we both endorsed is Adam. And you actually use Adam's as your, your studio mains for your mixing room.

Um, but their, their lower level stuff is also very good. 

Benedikt: [00:26:41] Yes. Yeah. Nothing more to add. Thanks. They are very good. You have either like them or not, they have these ribbon tweeters that are very accurate and very fast. They have a very fast transit response, which I really like, some people think it's fatiguing or like too detailed in the, the top end.

I dunno, it's personal preference. I just like, maybe [00:27:00] they just work in my room. I just liked them. Um, and I know a couple of people who swear by them. I also know people who can't stand them. You have to try it, but their entry level monitors are still one of the best, I think, options in that price range, regardless of that.

And I don't think you're, if you're not really spending a lot of money on monitors and you're not that experienced, I don't think these things matter as much to you. It's like, it will be way better than what you are already than what you already have. It will wait, be way better than any desktop consumers, speakers or whatever.

So whether you go with the yamas or the atoms or. Um, the entry-level diamonds or whatever, they will be. Yeah, you will be stoked. I think. Definitely. I agree. Yeah. And then there are the amphibians you already mentioned, which are very popular at the moment. They are passive. I think you need an M for them.

They are a little more expensive. They are very, very awesome. Um, but I don't think this is the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to building a studio on a 

Malcom: [00:27:55] budget. Yeah. Very, very top of the line gear for sure. [00:28:00] Um, yeah, so probably steer clear, but it's fun to talk about. A couple things we need to recap in this monitoring section.

Um, earlier you mentioned sonar works, uh, that you like your buyer headphones with sonar works because they have a hyped. Top end if anybody doesn't know what the hell we're talking about, that is a software that corrects the IQ curve of your headphones and speakers can be used on speakers as well. Um, pretty cool.

You should check it out. They actually have like a consumer product that's for like, you can throw on your apple ear buds or whatever consumer headphones you have to make your music sound better. And, uh, if you kind of just like want to get like a cheap idea of what they're selling, um, and both, any, and I are definitely big fans of this company.

Um, I think that what they're doing is great and there's a whole bunch of other competitors coming to market at the time, this time as well. She's got an interesting, um, but anyways, That's a service. You can check out, not mandatory, but can be great. [00:29:00] And then, uh, the other thing we need to mention is we've been talking about how rooms are inaccurate and that's why we recommend headphones.

But if you want to get a jumpstart on fixing that head back to our episode with Wesco Lohan, he is just the, the authority on making rooms sound good. And for us, surprisingly. Affordable, um, budget as well. And the episode he did with us was, was so fantastic. I've gotten to listen to it 

Benedikt: [00:29:25] like twice since.

Yeah, I agree that yes, coach is my, my go-to, um, resource for that. He has a website acoustics, insider.com, where he has like free resources, blog articles, a fantastic YouTube channel downloads. Like you don't even have to spend money, then we'll get pretty far with this material. And if you book him as a consultant, as a coach, Um, he will plan your studio, your mixing room for you.

It doesn't cost a fortune. It really doesn't. Um, but you will have a full solution. You will know exactly what to buy, what to build. He's big on like building stuff, [00:30:00] DIY, because it's much cheaper and more effective than most of the pre-made kits you can buy. So before you go out there and spend a thousand bucks on whatever foam kit for your room, go to Tesco's website and maybe reach out to him because he might be able or probably is able.

To do something much, much better for you in your room for the same amount of money. So, 

Malcom: [00:30:22] yeah, definitely. I think our, our podcast episode with you we'll get, we'll save you money if you just listen to that. 

Benedikt: [00:30:28] Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, if you want to go the monitor route, you need to, you should look into treating your room and you can do a lot of it yourself.

It's not rocket science. You can get pretty far. And sonar works. The software that we mentioned is. The the last couple of percent, like the, yeah, I think you should do as much as you can to your room first and then whatever is still lacking. You can correct with sonar works. I think it's worth getting it anyways, but that's the, that's the right way to do it.

I think don't just rely on the software because some of the problems will [00:31:00] still be there no matter to the Q curve. Like there's this stuff in the time, um, domain that you can't correct with the queue, but. It's still helps. And, uh, that it's not impossible to treat a room and to improve it significantly.

So the episode number is number 49. It's called home. It's called home studio, acoustics and room treatment with the ESCO Lohan. Um, and if you go to the self recording band.com/ 49, yeah. It will take you directly to that. Or you can just search for it on your podcast app and listen to that. If you are in the academy, there's suffer cording band academy.

My online course that I have. Then there is a bonus lesson with a Q and a session with a yes killer bonus workshop, which was very cool as well. And, um, as soon as I'm going to be opening that up again, you get to, to watch this if you're not already in there. 

Malcom: [00:31:48] Awesome. All right. Yes, let's move on. Uh, we've covered monitoring very thoroughly.

Now, I would say, um, Maybe we should jump into absolutions 

[00:32:00] Benedikt: [00:32:00] yes. Software basically. Yeah. Yes. So what we mean with absolutions is other than your typical guitar and people won't give you recommendations there because you probably have a preference. If you use a guitar amp or like they're just too many options and we don't know your music and what you're going for.

So, um, but there are solutions that you can use at home without annoying your neighbors. And, uh, so you can, and it also it's it's. A lot more convenient and sometimes it will lead to better quality recordings. If you go that route even. Especially in a DIY scenario, in a DIY, um, on the ROI projects and that those things are amp Sims, um, software guitar, amps that you can use instead of a real guitar amp.

And I don't really like the term real guitar amp or not because all of it is real. It's just different tools. You just plug a guitar in and it makes noise. But the one is with tubes and analog circuitry and the other happens in your computer. But the only thing that really matters is what comes out of the speakers and both ways [00:33:00] can be.

Awesome can lead to awesome results. And there is stuff in the middle, like the camper that you use and love Malcolm. So you can have a real amp, you can have a modeling app like the camper, or you can use a plugin, different solutions, different tools. Um, yeah, and I sometimes use the analog stuff and I sometimes use the plugins and none of them is better.

It's just different. 

Malcom: [00:33:21] Totally different. Yeah. I, uh, It again, the situation that we're kind of describing here is for people building a studio on a budget for DIY recording. Um, so a lot of you might be in apartments, so you can't crank up an amp, you know, it's just not possible. So this is that solution right now.

Right. Um, even if you can crank up an amp, does your room sound terrible? Like we've been talking about, uh, just in the last kind of section of this, um, then you know, your, your recording of your amps. Probably not going to sound great either. Um, are you any good at dialing in a tone with an app kind of thing, software kind of takes a lot of this out of the equation for you, um, and can just give you [00:34:00] great results immediately, essentially.

Um, again with that advantage of not being committed to it even so you can just still send the clean, died to your mixer in the end and, and rely on them to take it to like another level of tone. Um, A lot of advantages there. And number one advantage is that it is so affordable, you know, uh, like a good app and good mic.

And the, you know, recording chain is much more expensive than one of these plugins that gives you just a ton of good tones. 

Benedikt: [00:34:31] Yep. What we, I think what we both would recommend in this case is buying a third party plugin because you can get pretty far with stock plugins when it comes to mixing and accuse and compressors and stuff like that.

But I still think that when it comes to guitar, amps and simulators, the stock plugins still are not as great as some of the third party. Plug-ins I think it's safe to say that there are great ones and it can be fun to play with the virtual pedal boards and whatnot. And there's fun stuff they're out there, but the [00:35:00] dedicated amp SIM companies, they make really amazing stuff like neural DSPs.

What we both recommend a lot. Um, STL is awesome. I like their tone hub software a lot. Uh, there are a couple of others. BrainWorks has some cool apps. Um, the UAD platform has some amps. I I've not tried them. Uh, I haven't tried them, but I think there are, um, decent ones at least. Yeah. Yeah. There are a couple of options.

There's an Italian company that I recently checked out that I liked a lot. I think it's called , but I'm going to, I'll have to Google it. I like those a lot. Actually. I was like 

Malcom: [00:35:33] a really late adopter. Like it was only within like the last six months that I. Found an, it helps them that I was like, oh my God, we've got to just use this.

This is so awesome. And that was, that was neural DSP. And I I've used quite a few other ones. Um, like, you know, slate had one and stuff like that. And to me, it wasn't quite there, you know, it could get there, like sometimes I'd get tracks sent to me that had already printed it on and then, you know, through [00:36:00] mixing out, get it where it needed to be.

Um, but. As far as like recording through it, I was like, this really doesn't feel good enough to me. And, uh, that the neural stuff totally just took that out of the equation. If anything, it feels better. It's just so good feeling. Yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:36:14] totally, totally. Um, yeah, neural STL. And then Brittany, I just looked it up, um, is an amazing company as well.

Uh, they have a great AC 30 emulation that I really like. So, um, yeah, it's, there are a couple of options out there. One thing I need to mention here as well, is the helix software and hardware. Uh, I wasn't big line six fan, or I haven't been a big line six fan for like, I never really was. I just didn't didn't like the products, but the helix is really awesome.

Really, really, really good. I just have to say that. So, um, yeah, that's, that's definitely, definitely an option. And as I said, in another episode, even with older, older, or not as great sounding. Modelers. If you can turn off the cap and use a proper [00:37:00] IRR that can improve it drastically. So whatever you're using, maybe get a bunch of good IRS.

They are very inexpensive for, I don't know, for 10, 15, 20 bucks, you can get cool ARS. Um, those are virtual caps, like snapshots of cabinets and whole signal chains, basically like cap, microphone, preamp, everything. And if you can deactivate the cab in your amp modeler and use one of those IRS instead. It will probably sound pretty cool.

So it's worth looking into that as well. 

Malcom: [00:37:30] Definitely worth experimenting with yeah. You'll find some stuff you like. 

Benedikt: [00:37:33] Yeah. Okay. So drum software is next on the list. Um, that's a big one, too. If you are producing at home in your home studio, in your bedroom, apartment, whatever, you're probably not going to be able to track drums properly, even if in your, if, even if you're in your jam space, your practice room, even if that's a decent room, it's probably not going to be really good.

It's very hard. Um, to make a room sound like a really cool drum room, like a really professional recording studio room [00:38:00] sounds. Um, that's not easy to do and you can of course record your own drums. And we've, we have episodes on that, but it's going to be very hard to beat a well programmed drum track with one of these software 

Malcom: [00:38:14] products.

Yes, it, uh, like as far as becoming a good recording engineer goes, getting drums figured out is probably the hardest part. Um, like that's going to be the longest learning curve is one of those things that you never stop learning about. Actually you'll always be tweaking and try new things, um, for the rest of your life.

Um, and even as somebody that's been doing it for decades, now, it, uh, if you put me in the wrong room, there's not, it's, it's kind of out of my hands at that point, you know? I think if we're in a place with like six foot ceilings and it's made of bathtub material, it's just like, okay, this is going to sound bad.

No matter how expensive the mics are, no matter what pre-amps are used, doesn't matter what the converters are like, this nothing matters other than that room [00:39:00] pretty much. Um, and, and not to mind, I mean, we've, yeah, we've got episodes on how to make drums sound good. You know, the tuning scans, all that stuff, the player, but, uh, so drumming software is a fixed for that.

Um, I really do prefer live drums, but it's just not an option for everyone. Um, and, and drumming software can do a fantastic job. And, um, again, the situation is you're building a studio on a budget. You probably don't have the space to even do one or you're in an apartment again kind of thing. So this is the only solution.

Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:39:31] And when, in doubt, you should still, even if you're going to use real drums in the end, you're still, I think you should still have. Drum software and learn how to program it, because what you can do is you can program to the best of your abilities using the best software. They are not super expensive.

And then you can hire a remote drummer. And send them your program drums, and then just see what you prefer. If you hire a good drummer with a good room and they track the real drums, you can compare them to your program [00:40:00] drums and just, whatever's better. I think that is such 

Malcom: [00:40:03] a good call. There's no reason not to do that.

Yeah. That's great. 

Benedikt: [00:40:07] Both is more affordable than you think you can hire a PA really great people and it won't cost you fortune and you can buy the best drummer and drum software and it won't cost you a fortune. So why not just try and then. With try with one song and then use whatever is better for the rest of the record, for example.

Yeah, totally. 

Malcom: [00:40:23] That makes 

Benedikt: [00:40:23] sense to me. Yeah. All right. Um, when it comes to actual drum software, what do you prefer? I have clear favorites, but what do you prefer Michael Malcolm or use? Most often? I 

Malcom: [00:40:34] don't have a clear favorite. Um, I do so little of it, uh, that I like I've got superior drummer. It seems great.

Um, I've got one called Enzo by RS drums. Um, love the tones of it, but the velocities are pretty lacking. Um, Currently, at least there might be an update coming. I think I saw which would be sweet. Uh, no, they're not going to have more velocities coming. That's not happening, but I mean, for metal it was great kind of [00:41:00] thing.

Um, uh, those are really the two, I've got some other contact ones that like are just part of native instruments, libraries, um, and haven't really used them. So, yeah, I'm just not an authority on this, but superior drummers obviously. Um, a recommended one, uh, easy drummer actually is pretty fantastic as well.

Um, I've had some success with people sending me stuff 

Benedikt: [00:41:21] from that. Yeah. So yeah, for me, it's superior drummer as well, but my, my favorite is still are the room sound libraries. It might be because all of their kids are, um, signature producer kits sort of, and those are my favorite producers. It's just exactly the music that I'm listening to and that I'm making those at the time.

So you can get. Um, a Kripalu kit, if you're a converged fan or Kripalu fan, you know what his drums typically sound like. You can get this, you can get a cheap mosque kit, um, uh, Boba childcare. I think the Kirpalu one is a pretty, pretty signature Kripalu sound. So it's not very versatile. I think, [00:42:00] um, I might, other people might think differently about this, but I can clearly hear that.

It sounds like Kripalu, but with J Mohs and the blasting room kit or the child childcare. They are very versatile to me and they don't have as much of a. Distinct sound. What's cool about the RA, um, like, like the room sound libraries is that they are raw untreated samples that you can tweak to your liking.

Unlike some of the libraries that are heavily processed and sound good right away, but they are, they have this sound that you immediately recognize and they don't fit every. Every project very well where the room sound libraries, they work on anything for me. It's, it's, it's just amazing. It's just crazy how they sound.

And I really, really, really like them. I have an affiliate link for them. So full disclosure, like if you go to. The self recording band.com/ 69. That will be linked to room sound drums. If you click that and end up buying, I got a commission, so I'd [00:43:00] appreciate if you do that, but I would recommend them and I have recommended them before I got that link already because I have bought with my own money.

I have bought all of the libraries and I've used them for years and I will buy anything. They will, um, that we'll be releasing because I just really, really, really like how they sound. It's amazing. The bleeds sound super realistic. Um, they have cool like little features that others don't have. Um, depending on the producer, like tricks they like to use and stuff like that.

Um, yeah, just very, very amazing sounding, um, kits and they are not expensive. I think there are 18. Yeah. Andy bucks, something like that. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:43:33] Yeah. They're, they're definitely totally affordable and yeah, I can see why they just work on everything. Cause they are just great sounding drums. It's like the end of the day you hear it.

And you're like, oh, that sounds like an 

Benedikt: [00:43:41] awesome kid. Exactly. They are tuned very properly, very carefully great rooms. And, um, you can still use presets by the way that our process, they come with a whole effects rack of compressors and accuse and model stuff and effects and saturation. So you can tweak them in the software just with like any other goods drum software, [00:44:00] but you can also use them completely raw.

And then that's what they sound like. They sound completely right. If you do that. So those and superior drummer are my rec my clear recommendations. Um, And then there are, of course, like the slate SST five, then you one sounds pretty decent. There's a free kit. I think, um, from that library that's, that's actually pretty good.

Um, and then there are the get good drums that I know are pretty popular. And I, I think they sound great, but this is one of those laboratories where I can often, at least I can tell when they are used, they have this distinct sound. So whenever people use the modern massive kit, you know, it just sounds like the GTD modern massive kit.

If you like that awesome choice. They have other kids as well. Definitely. Great. I just think they have a sound and I don't want that on my records most of the time, but I might be wrong. I'm sure I have listened to records where they have been used and I didn't notice so. 

Malcom: [00:44:51] Right. Yeah. I mean, it's so popular for a reason, cause it is fantastic sounding, but it is so popular that yeah.

You can start to recognize it on other people's [00:45:00] records and 

Benedikt: [00:45:00] stuff. The same as with the elders older slate samples, like at some point everyone was using slate samples and you could just tell and yeah. Yeah, 

Malcom: [00:45:07] exactly. So, uh, yeah. Just be wary. I mean, I, yeah, it's great. You'll be happy. Um, and yeah, uh, especially for writing, it's just like set and forget it.

Benedikt: [00:45:17] You're good to go. That's what I want. Just wanted to say sometimes that's exactly what you want though. This ready to go, like right out of the box gray sounding kit and, um, Yeah. In that case, you don't want the raw room sound thing you want THD because you just like you drag and drop a media loop in there and you could play, and it sounds like a fully mixed kit.

And then it's awesome for raining. Of 

Malcom: [00:45:36] course, you might even have an included one. That's fine for what you need. In your dot, like the, the logic drummers are pretty crazy. Cool. Um, I think they even like write their parts for you if you want, which is kind of wild. Um, uh, I don't think pro tools has anything like that.

Unfortunately you'll need something if you're approachable. Is it? Yeah. Just looking at your doc, you might already have a solution. [00:46:00] Yes. 

Benedikt: [00:46:00] One thing I want to add here is people confuse that often. That's why I wanted to mention it. Drum use teas or drum samplers are not the same thing as a mini pack. For example, like there are sample packs, there are software instruments, and then there are many packs.

So the software sampler, the actual instrument is a piece of software that comes with samples. And often also with middy loops, but it's the program that fires the prerecorded samples. And it's what, yeah. It's. The software. And then there are sample packs, which are extensions most of the time for these programs.

So you have the software and you want different sounding samples. So you can buy a sample pack loaded in the, into the sampler, and then you have different options. And then there are many groove packs or mini packs or whatever. Those are just many notes, mini information that you can. Depending on the map and the software you're using you drag and drop them into your door.

Um, you use one of those software programs, [00:47:00] one of the samplers and the mini packs, all, all it is. It's just, it's telling the software what to play. So it's a writing. It helps too with writing or being faster with production. It's just popular. Um, often used like, um, grooves and fills and stuff like that.

And I recommend getting. Um, some of those may, depending on the software, you using some come with a pretty decent media library. Some don't, but it's worth looking into those media packs because they are pretty affordable. And it's a great starting point. If you're not sure how to program drums, you can use them for riding and you can just build your songs with the pre-made loops, but you can also use them to learn how to actually properly, um, program drums.

You see how those are made, you see the velocities. Yes. And if you like what they sound like, you could just, um, yeah. Study how it's done and make. Some yourself, you know, so, yeah, definitely. And there's one website that I want to recommend for people [00:48:00] doing, um, the punk rock rock stuff that I do often. It's called DIY punk rock.com and they have awesome sounding and well programmed, middy grooves for pop punk, skate punk, all sorts of.

Hard rock and punk music basically. And they have different packs with different maps for all the popular, um, software products. So you can get a mini groups for superior drummer for the room, sound libraries for get good drums and you just drop them drag and drop them into your door. And they are mapped correctly.

They work. Out of the box and they are really, really well programmed and work really well. So I would highly recommend checking those out. 

Malcom: [00:48:41] Cool. I didn't realize that you could have third-party sounds brought into superior German. 

Benedikt: [00:48:46] Not sounds but many groups. Okay, cool. These are that's the distinction I wanted to do.

Malcom: [00:48:53] I realized what you were saying, but when I looked on, I pulled up DIY punk rock. And it says the pop punk lender superior drummer three preset [00:49:00] pack pack is a collection of three fully mixed kits. 

Benedikt: [00:49:04] Okay. It's more than just a mini proofs it's yeah. In this case it's apparently mixed settings, um, effects. So it's it's presets, 

Malcom: [00:49:14] right?

Yeah. Okay. It must be mixing on the existing kits inside of. Spirited probably 

Benedikt: [00:49:19] yes, but they, but they also have just the mini groups as I was describing. So you have these mini drum packs, media expansion packs, where you can just, um, yeah, it's just, they are already programmed for you and you just have to combine them and build your song with them.

And it saves you a lot of time. And especially if you're just starting out, it's um, a great way to learn. So 

Malcom: [00:49:39] definitely. Yeah. That's, that's definitely cool. Um, Yeah, keep going even deeper. Some of them like easy drummer, for example, and I think the newest superior drummer, uh, have like a kind of like tap to find rhythm kind of thing.

So you could just like tap on the kick and the stair PA ended up find many groups that kind of have something similar to that. Uh, so [00:50:00] it's like, I want something along these lines and then you've got some options pretty, pretty 

Benedikt: [00:50:03] quick. Awesome. That's pretty cool. All right. Talking about middy and, um, programming, meaty stuff.

There are. Input devices, um, controllers that you can buy, um, depending. Yeah, depending on what you like. Some people like to program with a mouse, some people like to do it with drum pads or an ear drum kit, or with a small mini controller. If you want to program melodic stuff like baselines or sense or pianos or whatever, you, you need some sort of keyboard.

And there are like the full, big digital piano, like, or Nord. General like, um, keyboards that you can use of course, but for most applications, programming, baselines, programming, simple synth pads, the background programming drums, stuff like that. There are small controllers, like you mentioned the cork nano key, for example.

And I mentioned the Akai MPK mini MP3. That's what I have here. Um, they are fun. It's [00:51:00] I have this on my desktop, even during mixing sometimes I think, well, it would be great to have the space line underneath the real base or whatever, or this pad. And I just. I just reach over and play it and recorded real quick.

It's just super fun to have one of these and they are cheap. Like it's under a hundred bucks in. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:51:15] They're very affordable. Just to have something, I mean, you can do it with your mouse, um, but you'll find if somebody has any piano skills at all. It's probably better just to have some keys in front of them, um, to get ideas out.

Uh, yeah, very affordable. And all these are used for is controlling the software instruments inside of your door. Of 

Benedikt: [00:51:34] course. Yeah. So look into one of these. Yeah. I mean, that's basically it. So you have your microphones, you have an interface, you have the software you record with, you have something you can listen on headphones or monitors.

You have a guitar amp option. If you can't record a real guitar amp. You have to the guitar I'm software, you have the drum software, you have a controller to actually actually [00:52:00] properly record the meaty stuff. All you need now is stuff like cables, pump filters stands, adapters, all those things. Uh, don't forget to like really make a checklist and see what you see, because you're probably going to end up, um, missing something in the end.

There's always an adapter or a cable or whatever. That's not included 

Malcom: [00:52:21] the headphone extension cable. That's the one that's everybody misses. 

Benedikt: [00:52:25] Exactly. Yeah. And those things break as well sometimes. So have a spare one ready in case like there's a. Weird contact issue, whatever, like just have a extension cables, have maybe signals, litters or DCI boxes, whatever you need for the various instruments you're using.

Adapters stands. Of course, a pop filter. Yeah, cables, stuff like that. Just make a list of all the things like go through the whole signal chain and buy all those things because it's really, I've been there. It's really frustrating. If you you're excited, you want to set up your home studio, you're connecting everything.

And then there's one critical piece missing. That's like three bucks, but you just haven't ordered it. [00:53:00] And now you can't. Use your stuff. 

Malcom: [00:53:02] Yep. Yep, totally. Um, yeah, and that, uh, you know, you'll always be finding more stuff. You want just little things that help whatever they are. 

Benedikt: [00:53:13] And now there is a specific reason, at least for me, why we haven't included plugins on our list.

And at least for me, it is because you don't need them in the beginning. I think the stock plugins with any of the doors we've mentioned. Um, we'll be totally fine. You'll have everything you need. You'll have compressors. You'll have accused. You will have saturation, you'll have limiters. You will even have multi-band tools.

Like the stock plugins have become really, really good and versatile. And I don't think unless you have all those things that we've been talking about in this episode, unless you have everything and are really happy with everything. Um, I don't think you need to buy any, any third party plugin, maybe get a fat filter.

EKU is something that we've been recommending on another episode, maybe. If you want a really flexible ACU, but even that, like go get all those [00:54:00] things first and then start looking into plugins. Yep. 

Malcom: [00:54:03] I totally agree. Yeah. The only plugins really, to be concerned about are those virtual instruments or amp solutions that you may need kind of thing.

Right. Um, you know, the actual things that make the album have the parts it needs, but yeah, having a niche compressor is not going to effect if your songs are good. So don't worry about that stuff. 

Benedikt: [00:54:23] Yep. Exactly. All right. That's it? I think, yeah, 

Malcom: [00:54:27] that's a that's part two finished and wrapped. Um, that was a big series, but, uh, yeah, and again, of course you have to apply your own situation.

If you don't sing, you don't need to worry about half of the stuff in the microphone section, right. Um, like it's all dependent on. What you are trying to do with your music and your band situation, of course. So you might be able to get away with half the stuff, or you might need more than this, who knows.

Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:54:51] Yeah, exactly. Also stuff like this changes, obviously over time, there's new technology and new products on the market. So if you're listening to this a year from [00:55:00] now, we might have done another episode like this and maybe updated, or like, I think we should probably do one every year or so at least.

And I also, that's also the reason that why I update my gear guide. Um, so if you have already downloaded the gear guide, you might have the 2019 version because I didn't do one in 2020 20, but I have updated it in 2021. So you might want to download again because there are different interface recommendations and stuff like that in there.

I will update it more regularly from now on. And just keep in mind that stuff like this just changes the interfaces we recommend today might not be the best choice next. Who 

Malcom: [00:55:35] knows? Oh yeah. Yeah. I'd say like, if we're going to do some predictions, I would say the interfaces is going to be one of the most radically different, um, over a 12 month span probably, uh, It seems like the entry level level, like of quality seems to change the most rapidly.

Um, people, a prediction is those amps Sims are going to be just even more commonplace. Um, within 12 months, that'd be my second point. 

[00:56:00] Benedikt: [00:56:00] Yeah, totally. And I also predict that people are still going to be using  10 years from now. Yeah. So some, some products just are evergreen and just as good as always and other products change.

But in the digital world, it's the quicker. We will see a lot of things, a lot of new products in the modeling, um, yeah. In the modern category of products like modeling mix modeling, headphones, stuff like that, maybe who knows, maybe modeling monitors. I don't know w all sorts of things that, that's the stuff that's changing pretty quickly interfaces everything digital, but the tried and true headphone models and to tried and true, um, microphone models, they will still be around.

I think. Oh a long time. Definitely. Cool. Let's wrap it up. See you next week. All right. Thank you for listening. Thank you. .