TSRB Podcast 82

[00:00:00] Lucas: For anyone listening, just make sure you're listening. It's fantastic. The podcast is great. It feels like right now it's a bit of a unique situation that like our mixer and master is the guy running the podcast where I am learning how to record my own band from this is the self recording band podcast.

The show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are. DIY style. Let's go.

Hello. 

[00:00:30] Malcom: To the self recording band podcast. My name is Malcolm own flood. And today we are doing a bit of a special episode. I, uh, I'm not joined by Benny first off. He is doing an episode with his own special guest. Um, so we're kind of split off for, for an episode or two, but I am joined today by Sean lines and Lucas.

'cause I see your last name, right? Absolutely dead. Yes. Yes. Great. Of the bandwidth future. And let me explain what the kind of episode [00:01:00] theme we're doing here is that, uh, the whole self recording band platform essentially tries to teach people listening, how to record their own bands. And, um, we're diehard, campaigners have the idea of taking that recording and then getting it mixed by a professional.

And what future these two guys that you're about to hear from are like the, the template band. I think you're, you're like the perfect example of this. Um, you're a band that I've worked with now on. Did we just finish the fourth? Single 

[00:01:33] Lucas: fourth, single. Yes. 

[00:01:35] Malcom: Yeah. So like literally just got the confirmation confirmation email that we're finished on that mix, like an hour or two ago.

Uh, and, uh, so yeah, we we've been doing this since January. I think we did the first track. 

[00:01:46] Lucas: Uh, yeah, I think we, it was it December toughen up was the first one that was not self recording band that was produced. Right. 

[00:01:54] Malcom: Definitely ended up talking about that for sure. Sure. Um, but yeah, we, we wanted to talk to bands that are actually [00:02:00] listening to the pocket.

And kind of taking action with it. And I want to hear about your process. I mean, I already know some of it because I tried. Somewhat close with you guys, um, through all of it. And, uh, but I'll I'll, so I'll probably be asking some questions that I know of the answer of just for the listeners, but I'm sure the stuff that I don't know about that I'm totally curious about as well.

Um, and I definitely want to hear what it's like from your perspective, going through the process and working with somebody like my. Um, and, and actually, uh, your, your working relationship with your drummer, Brett as well, because you guys are not only a self recording band, you are like a self recording COVID band where you've had to be a band without even being close to each other for a long time, like a large amount of your, your band's life.

Wasn't spent jamming in a room like most bands do. So I think let's bring it back to, uh, Like [00:03:00] what led to you guys wanting to self record in the first place? 

[00:03:05] Lucas: Okay. Well, I'm right out of the gate. Uh, finances, we, uh, we, yeah, we got together as a group and were like, we want to have recordings to represent the music we love and the stuff we love to play.

And, uh, We just could not afford to get into a studio and just hash out all these songs. There was no possible way we could do it. So we, uh, looked into how can we do this ourselves and still push out a product that we're proud of. It's, uh, you know, it's easy enough to just plug stuff in and just record and just walk away and be like, we made these songs, but we want it to be able to stand back after and just look down on the songs about, okay, well, we love these songs.

We love the process. And, uh, yeah, that's kind of why we decided to go to self-report courting band route. Awesome. 

[00:03:57] Malcom: Awesome. And I'm realizing I didn't really give you guys a [00:04:00] chance to, uh, verbally introduce yourselves to the listeners. So just so people that like know who's talking and can attach a name to a voice.

Uh, why don't you just say your name and your position in the band each 

[00:04:11] Sean: I'm Sean lines and I'm the singer? Um, uh, I guess you could say songwriter of a future, uh, I'll split. But, uh, yeah, I'm more of a 

[00:04:20] Lucas: singer for sure. Uh, my name is Lucas . I play primarily the lead guitar and a wet feature. And, um, I, um, have been turning the knobs primarily through the band with, uh, Sean and other guys helping, uh, critique with their ears and, uh, push out the best product we can.

[00:04:41] Malcom: Awesome. Awesome. That's perfect. Keep on a budget. That's that's definitely a great reason to go down the self recording route. Um, now I'm curious, was it as affordable as you thought it was when you first thought of that idea or did you have to buy some gear 

[00:04:57] Lucas: to make it happened? I bought a little bit of gear.

I [00:05:00] upgraded a couple things, but like I still have a very bare bones setup. Um, so to answer your question, it's pretty much. Exactly what I thought would we be paying primarily we're paying for mixes, um, and the master. So the rest of it is just our own time and just putting, you know, putting an art time into making the best tracks as we can.

Um, so I've had to, I upgraded my interface like maybe 10 months ago, besides that I haven't really purchased a ton of recording gear. To be honest, I've been working with a very bare bones. 

[00:05:38] Malcom: Awesome. Well, maybe we could just even run through real quick, um, like what the primary pieces of gear are in your kid.

Um, because anybody that's listening to this wants to hear the result. I think we've gotten some really awesome results out of this. Um, so they can just go search wet future on Spotify or any of their favorite music. But, uh, let's yeah, let's do a little quick run through I'll I'll prompt you. What's 

[00:05:59] Lucas: your [00:06:00] interface.

My interface is a focus, right. Scarlet for, I for right. It's a pretty, a pretty standard interface and it seems to work awesome. Is that four XLRs in, uh, uh, there's two and yeah. Yeah. 

[00:06:11] Malcom: Awesome. Um, and then what's a, you're actually, you know what, we're going to, we're going to touch on all of the instruments anyways.

I mean, that's that, that's important just knowing the interface. I'm stoked on that. Um, so getting going on it, what was the, like the initial barrier that, that kind of came up when you tried to start recording yourselves? Um, my, my thought, knowing your band and knowing how it all started, you didn't really have a drummer to begin with, so maybe we should start that.

[00:06:43] Lucas: Yeah. So, uh, well, Sean and I have been playing together for four, five years. I'm questioning this now, but it's around that long and in and out of different bands. Um, and then we picked up our bass player about a, would it be [00:07:00] safe to say a year and a half ago? Two years ago? Uh, yeah, we still 

[00:07:03] Sean: am from saltwater soul.

[00:07:05] Lucas: Uh, fantastic guy camera nailer showed up the camera Naylor. Um, and then we have cycled through about three different drummers and, uh, for whatever reasons they just didn't work out. We just, um, you know, they either weren't into us or we weren't into them, you know, it's super mutual. Um, but friends, yeah, we're just, just friends.

Um, Uh, so we, um, I've been playing with Brett addict for many years now. I actually met Brett because I was playing in my stepbrothers band, uh, chase Spencer. And, uh, he reached out to chase via, uh, uh, Craigslist, actually. He was like, uh, I saw that you're looking for. Can we come rehearse. So Brett came the one day and then I've been playing in a couple of other bands with bread ever since.

So he was kind of the obvious guy to go to. And every other local drummer in Victoria fell through. Um, and then, uh, so we [00:08:00] just, first we recorded a couple songs with them and we, you know, hired him, him as a session guy. And then, uh, after awhile he bought all of us collectively came together. We're just like, this just feels.

So how you feel about joining in and, you know, having a say with how the band is all going and, you know, putting your, putting your input into it and he was happy to do it. Awesome. 

[00:08:22] Malcom: Yeah. So, cause when we're talking about gear, for example, your focus, right. Scarlet and interface, that can't record a drum kit because there's just not enough channels.

Right. Um, so I think that's a hurdle that comes up for bands a lot. How do we self record, but get drums recorded. And initially, I mean, th the first song, um, just so everybody listening to understands the first song you guys actually went into a studio and went to silverside and tracked the song there, um, kind of the traditional path.

And then the next song though, uh, you hired Brett again. I still don't think he was in the band, but he had a home home set up. So you just hired [00:09:00] remote tracks essentially from them in that 

[00:09:01] Lucas: case, correct? Exactly. So he had an 18, uh, channel, uh, interface there and, uh, he was just kind of beginning to record himself there too.

Uh, so he's also been along for the process of sort of self recording band thing too. So for us, it also for, since this is the route we wanted to go, we were talking about before, before Brett was in the band were like, how are we going to get these drum tracks? You know, we, we can do it all ourselves minus the drums.

There's no way we can do that unless we're going in the middy route, which isn't nothing that there's anything wrong with it, but it wasn't necessarily the route we wanted to go. But Brett has a studio. He has the whole setup and the guy slays on drums. It just made sense to have him. I feel 

[00:09:40] Sean: like session musician.

He's the guy to go to. If anyone's listening and looking for a session drummer, a hit a Bret, a T he's amazing. It's a T right? Yeah. Steve. Yeah. 

[00:09:49] Malcom: And the guy for awhile called them 

[00:09:50] Lucas: attic. 

[00:09:53] Malcom: Love you, Brett, Brett, whatever your name is. You're awesome. Uh, yeah, so [00:10:00] I, that definitely offers like one solution for people in the same, same spot.

You can hire a session drummer just to get that job done. Um, or you can hire a studio to get drums done, or you can do what Brett himself did and invest in, uh, getting enough interface channels to be able to record your. Um, and in that case, like all that happened before he even joined the band, but it really paid off for him.

And it, every time he sends me tracks, I ended up sending them back some notes and he tweaks it a little bit. So we've got a great relationship going on where it's like constantly improving, which is all. Yeah. Going 

[00:10:32] Sean: back to what you said, Malcolm, uh, that was initially our primary concern. Uh, not being able to properly, uh, make the drums.

Yeah, he's, he's been a huge help in that sense. So, um, that's definitely something we're 

[00:10:44] Malcom: appreciative of. Awesome. Awesome. Um, when you first thought to get going and self recording, did you entertain mixing it 

[00:10:54] Lucas: yourself? Um, very briefly, but we knew that it couldn't [00:11:00] possibly be our end game and it's not that we would turn it down in the future, but, uh, right away.

We just want it to be blunt. We want to radio songs and we're not going to be getting those by doing it ourselves. And that's why we turn to the absolute fantastic mixer and master on island, Malcolm and flood. We 

[00:11:18] Sean: thought about it. But yeah, it's a, when we heard your mix for like, okay, well maybe we can't do that.

[00:11:23] Malcom: Awesome. Yeah. I think that's such a good idea. I know Danny and I are like the most biased people in the world since we offer mixing as a service, but. I think again, that's why we're talking today is that you're, you're the poster child in, in my mind for this working. Um, and, and for getting a professional result, doing it yourself as much as you can essentially.

So that's great. Um, all right. I think it'd be fun to touch on each instrument group. Um, so drums, we've talked about a little bit. You've got Brett, he has a home set up and me and him, we're constantly sending notes back and forth, um, about [00:12:00] things that could be tweaked and for, for each song and stuff like that.

So, I mean, that's a good relationship for anybody that's working with a mixer repeatedly, just bounce get critiques from them. Um, how do you handle the creative part, especially when you couldn't be in the same. Um, which was how I think it started when you first had Brett in the band. Yeah. 

[00:12:22] Lucas: Well, so it's, the relationship definitely changed over time.

So first of all, the way it was all our understanding. He's special guy, you know, we're going to get him to play what we have in our minds. And, uh, of course, you know, he's a fantastic drummer, like he's burning stuff forward at that point, too. Um, so, you know, we paid him as a session guy. He delivered that service absolutely fantasy.

When it started to kind of gradually move into more of a band group, collective kind of thing. We kind of, you know, rolled back a little bit and we're like, well, Brett, what would you play? What would you do to make this song better? And, uh, I think because of it, we have [00:13:00] our songs going forward or even better.

[00:13:02] Malcom: Awesome. Uh, do you, does he like send you a pass and then you say, Hey, not sure about this part or like, how was the revision process? 

[00:13:12] Sean: Um, well, we had a lot of, a lot of songs kind of pre-written before we knew Brett. Um, and there was actually a bit of a struggle, um, with the songs that we kind of already had a really good idea as to what's going to happen.

Um, and then he would play his own version and, but we're, we're so dedicated to what we've been playing for a year already with maybe a previous tremor. So yeah, there was a bit of a, you know, a bit of a back and forth, uh, there, um, but, uh, w with these new songs going forward, uh, stuff that we haven't really had any drummers on the past, it's been more.

Working really well. He's, he's, he's doing his thing and it's, it's, it's awesome. 

[00:13:43] Malcom: Him. Um, since I'm pretty privy to his setup, I'll describe it. The listeners in case they want to listen to some of your songs and then kind of reverse engineer, how does a space pair of overheads? And then we close Mike snare top and bottom, [00:14:00] uh, kick in and then, uh, Tom and Tom.

Um, so let's make sure I did my math right there. We did kick snare, snare, Tom, Tom, over, over, and then we have one more channel left. He has eight XLRs in, um, and I think he has been throwing. Um, and the things we've been tweaking have been. Slight little face things like trying to position the snare more center and the stereo overheads, which he's just nailed now.

Um, the, the bottom center, Mike, we tweaked too. I remember a few times. And then there was one song where I, Tom was miked up that didn't get used. And I gave Brett a ribbon for that and said, Hey, throw that mic on something else. Next time. It's funny. People like it's universal among all. We wake up every drum and then don't realize that one of the times isn't even used in the song.

And it's like, when you only have eight channels, it's really handy actually to break that out and I grab a high hat or another room or something. Um, all right. So yeah, that's kind of Bret setup. I will mention that Brett hits so consistently and has such a [00:15:00] fantastic meter that, that handles a lot of the job.

Um, guy's a legend. Yeah. It's always great working on his tracks. Um, And now for workflow, you sent him scratch tracks to work with. 

[00:15:14] Lucas: Exactly. So we will, uh, record scratch tracks, usually in my apartment, in my, you know, makeshift barebone studio. And, uh, well, we will even do revisions on the scratch tracks too.

Like if we send it to him and he's like, oh, can we bump it up or down to BPM like that? So it takes, it's not as easy as just recording a scratch track, sending it to him and then automatically getting stems back. Um, it takes, it's a bit of a process. Um, but yeah, we always just send him the scratch tracks and then, uh, he'll give us revisions and we'll critique it.

And sometimes the critiques don't go through because he's like, you know what? I believe this is best for the song we talk about it. And then we go forward and then move on like that. Awesome. 

[00:15:54] Sean: Yeah. There's a heavy emphasis on getting the best BPM we can, uh, during the scratch sharks. [00:16:00] To me, that's the most important part of the scratch tracks, obviously, besides needing them for drums.

Yeah, that'd BPM. That's that's important. You got to get the right. I got the right 

[00:16:09] Lucas: vibe, you know, which can be hard to do the scratch tracks with out, having the drums in and something we have not done, which we will go do going forward eventually, uh, is have a middy tracks in there so we can actually feel it better.

Cause it's just so hard to feel the BPM I feel when it's not there. So we're just, all we have is what's in our head, but if there's drums, then. Um, that will, would help just greatly to nail that I think right out of the gate. 

[00:16:36] Malcom: Totally. Yeah. You'll I always find that you playing it at with just a guitar and a metronome, you're like, yeah, this feels right.

And then you get drums on it. It's like, oh, this feels so much faster or so much slower now. So it's tricky to nail it without actually getting in the room with the drummer, which I guess is something that's more possible than it was before. Now. We, you can just jam it out as a band and nail that BP on that.

So you get the drums back [00:17:00] there, everything you've ever dreamed to more, what normally comes next based or guitar. 

[00:17:04] Lucas: Oh man, this is a, so 90% of the time we, uh, do the base and because yourself, Malcolm, that's the way you did it when I've been in studios with you and it makes sense and it works. Um, I know, I know I was waiting for that one.

I wish he was here to, to backlash on that. Um, but, uh, we're one of the last songs actually. Uh, we w I mean, again, we would have probably started with bass, but our, uh, drummer or sorry, our bass player wasn't around. So we were like, you know what? Let's get together. And this just try to do some guitar tracks.

So we did, and we ended up loving it and we pop the bass on after it sounded great. Either work depends on the song. Depends on what you want to do, but, uh, yeah, it would work for 

[00:17:47] Sean: sure. Yeah. You know, sometimes a song will start with a section where it's just rhythm guitar and I find that's kind of probably the best 

[00:17:53] Lucas: time you use that for the sake of this episode.

Primarily, we start with base [00:18:00] for the record 

[00:18:03] Malcom: either way. It's fine. As long as you nail the tuning and, and tone choices, I think, um, and you have a scratch guitar to play too as well. Right. So you're all set up. Um, so for, for bass engineer, What's what are you, do you normally send me? I feel like an empty I out and just, yeah.

[00:18:23] Lucas: Yeah. So typically, and again, we've kind of changed it song per song and stuff, but primarily, uh, I, well, they're basically we'll come by and he burns his head and it's, uh, I can't tell you exactly what it is. It's an amp MPEG and we take a line out of the back and then we also, uh, go direct into a. Just a DEI box.

And, um, uh, so we will, you know, find something on the amp that we feel like sounds really good. And then, uh, we'll also have just a clean Dai, which is obviously going to happen every time. 

[00:18:56] Malcom: Yeah, that's great. Um, I feel like that's worked well every [00:19:00] time. Um, I, I can only think of the, I think the only note I've ever given for a base was that it was.

Like not enough top end. Um, and it seems like this last song that we just did, that's not, not out yet. Uh, had the, like the most top end of any of the bass tracks had been sent and I was really happy with it. 

[00:19:18] Lucas: Yeah. Um, that will be his flat rounds. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. 

[00:19:23] Malcom: And you actually go round, round, um, on 

a, 

[00:19:28] Lucas: yeah, I think the last song he did ended up going a round wound before it, which is why we're getting the more top end.

It was awesome. Yeah, it was, 

[00:19:35] Sean: I believe cam is actually getting new pickups soon. So, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm expecting you to be a pretty happy with those. 

[00:19:42] Malcom: Fantastic. He's a great bass player. He is shout out cameo or yeah, cam. Um, awesome. And so you're, you're tracking frustrating. Or at least Ram on strings on this one that were pretty fresh anyways.

Definitely. Um, any other like things you're watching for while you [00:20:00] engineer those bass parts, tuning dynamics kind of thing, um, how do you monitor it? Is it through loud speakers or 

[00:20:06] Lucas: headphones? Loudspeakers? Uh, sometimes he'll pop on headphones if he wants to kind of get into it a bit more, but I always have my monitor set up and they're, uh, pushing it out so we can hear it in the room.

Um, so yeah, we're like, obviously always looking at tune in every new take Eastern and, um, sometimes we don't get that. Right. And sometimes we, you know, sometimes it slips, but for the most part, we're always focusing on the tuning and just his execution and everything, but he's such a consistent bass player that like it's a few takes and it's just about all there kind of thing.

Like he, he nails it. Right. 

[00:20:44] Malcom: Awesome. This actually makes me want to backpedal just a little bit. Um, the, the lock between bass and drums generally has been really, really great in the tracks you sent me. So, uh, what goes down in terms of editing between, uh, [00:21:00] flick for drums, for example? 

[00:21:01] Lucas: Uh, well, Brett kind of sends us all of his tracks that he has edited and like, to be honest, for the most part they're full takes, he does a bit of editing and we try not to touch the drums too much.

So if. This is something pusher, polled. We will focus on the base, following the drums rather than touching the drums too much, going forward. 

[00:21:22] Malcom: Awesome. Yeah, he, that works because of how good bread is 

[00:21:25] Lucas: at drums. Yeah, the dude is just so consistent. 

[00:21:29] Malcom: Yeah. It would be a disaster. I think if it wasn't for his meter.

Um, now I have to, I used to throw bread under the bus on this cause it was. Maybe a month ago. And he, he messaged me being like, Hey, how do most drummers normally, like how many takes do they do to nail it? And through the course of the conversation, it became apparent that. I wasn't aware of comping essentially, which can't be in his, you know, if he played it three times, we would go through and choose the best parts of each take and it's kind of slot them all up [00:22:00] and make a super take where Brett was just playing it, start to finish until he nailed it and just like taking so, so long.

And, um, so we, we discussed the process of comp into him and I think he's very happy with that concept. Yeah, 

[00:22:15] Lucas: for sure. He has said he's been starting to do competent, a bit of editing himself. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, 

[00:22:20] Malcom: just so much quicker. And I mean, there's, uh, it's amazing that he's was just able to get it right.

Of course. But there's a lot of arguments for comping. I mean, number one, you're gonna save so much time. Um, you're not going to beat the piss out of your drum skins, you know, uh, and lose tuning and stuff like that. So it's just makes so much sense and I'm glad that he, he questioned. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so next was guitars then let's, uh, let's hear your guitar process.

[00:22:48] Sean: You are the, uh, the technical guy. I think the real thing. 

[00:22:51] Lucas: Um, well, eh, again, it changes all the time. Uh, the recording processes, this is huge. It's going to be, I'm going to get into this here. One. I'm gonna start with the strings. [00:23:00] Yes. New strings every time before, when we first started the album on the first couple of songs.

It was like, oh, you know, we could, uh, we could do a few, a couple songs and not change the strings, but now every single time we track any song, I'm popping these strings on the guitar. Um, as for the guitars himself, uh, I have, uh, single coils in a strata is used for probably 70% of our record right now. Um, uh, Sean has a telecast.

And then I also have guitar with P nineties on it. Uh, I don't currently actually own a guitar with humbuckers, but we get everything done with pretty well single coils and P90X. Um, so right from the guitar, I, uh, typically will go into the eye to make sure we got a clean Dai out of the DEI. I go into my pedal board and the pedals swap it all different times.

I'll I'll all the time with different drives. Uh, I will also push, uh, sometimes more recently [00:24:00] I've been trying to nail in some of the delays cause I did love the tonality out of, out of my strive and delay it. It's great. But, uh, to get that and nail that is really difficult. So I usually don't do that, but if I can, I will.

So going through the pedal chain, um, you know, I have drives the delay sometimes. Typically I'll stick a reverb on that and then coming right out of it, uh, is kind of the prize for trying to get the tone that we want you to hear when, uh, you're going to mix it is from our stream and Iridium Iridium. Yeah.

So it's just a, for anyone who doesn't know, it's a, an amp in a box pedal amp. Um, and it is fantastic. I love it. It's great. It's, you know, sort of same route of going camper, although I'm not going to completely compete, compare it to a camper because it's of cover can do way more. Um, and then right into the interface.

So I will always tracking a Dai. I'm always tracking, uh, some kind of tone that you [00:25:00] can, uh, go for. And I, it sounds like sometimes you have actually used at the tone we have sent you, which is really. Uh, and sometimes if I'm trying to go for, uh, if I am trying to like nail a delay or something else that I can't get out of my paddleboard, I also have, uh, one, um, app SIM.

It's an archetype. You're gonna be you probably, you're gonna correct me on this. The archetype, uh, Cory Wong plugin is that that's called. Yeah. So that's where I will go if I'm trying to find something else, but typically my P my, uh, My app, uh, sounds are coming over to the striving. I would love to make up an app and do that.

But. Both Sean and I both live in the condos downtown Victoria. There's just no way we could possibly do that. So, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:25:45] Malcom: That's actually, what's so cool about it. I forgot to mention that, that you live in apartment buildings in like right in the city. Um, and you're, you're making rock records out of them, which is just fantastic.

[00:25:54] Lucas: Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. Yeah. We actually live just directly across the street from each other. I'm looking at my house right now. We're sitting in [00:26:00] Sean's place, right? Oh, great. Yeah. 

[00:26:02] Malcom: And believe 

[00:26:02] Sean: me, I've had a lot of, uh, complaints for playing in the stairwells and yeah, it's definitely not an ideal location for, uh, for writing music, but, uh, you know, a great reverb in there, so 

[00:26:12] Malcom: fuck them.

That's what I say. Awesome. Um, so do you ever monitor with the archetype Cory Wong plugin, or do you always monitor through the. 

[00:26:23] Lucas: Uh, if I'm using dark type, I monitor through it. Cool. 

[00:26:27] Malcom: So whatever gets you closer to exactly. One that you're trying to get. Definitely. Yeah. And it's, it's been super helpful getting those.

Um, so even if I decide to ramp with the camper or even another app SIM, I have the, like this kind of template, this blueprint of like, okay, I see what he was going for, but I think we can push it further. That's been, that's been hugely awesome. And, and yeah, I have been using, I think on this latest track, actually, I feel like it was like 50, 50, the tones you sent in and 50% ramp.

So, 

[00:26:58] Lucas: yeah. And, uh, we [00:27:00] definitely, um, have spent a lot more time trying to dial in is telling them just for the first couple of songs we did where like, we were probably a little bit too confident or, you know, you know what, uh, Malcolm will handle this. She'll make it sound good. But, uh, you know, we, we learnt over a little bit of time.

We're like, well, We get as close as possible ourselves, then the end product will be better because he'll have a much better understanding of what we're going for. 

[00:27:24] Malcom: Absolutely. Yeah. And that's totally worked. Um, yeah, so the, the Iridium is a cool pedal. It pretty much anything like that that allows you to re to not crank up an app.

It makes it possible to do this in an apartment building record anywhere. So that's great. Um, How do you think your ears have changed when it comes to tuning over this process? Have you become more honed in, on, on the tiny details? 

[00:27:49] Lucas: Some guitars definitely. Definitely. When a Malcolm comes to you and he was like, did I get the pre-chorus this guitar's out of tune.

You definitely focus a little bit more on the tuning. Like starting off, like, [00:28:00] you know, we would pop it into, you know, a good tuning and play a few takes throughout the song and stuff. And then, you know, tune again after. Five 10 minutes kind of thing. But now it's like we track or we tune, we track, we tune, we track and we're always like focusing on, I can tell my ears are definitely a lot more in tune with it.

[00:28:23] Sean: And our guitars are pretty good at staying in tune as well. Um, so yeah, I definitely gotta be a stickler about that 

[00:28:28] Lucas: sometimes. Yeah. Um, so I think, uh, also because. Strat is primarily used for recording tons of this. It's just holds attuned so well, I can beat the crap out of that guitar and it's gonna stay in tune.

So I trusted that more than I trusted my ears, I guess. So I just kinda ran with it like, oh my guitar, doesn't lose a tune, but learning throughout the process and getting a good notes. Uh, definitely I'm a lot more focused on it now for sure. Trust the leader. Yeah, 

[00:28:55] Malcom: yeah, yeah. Always, always your ears. Your ears are always right.[00:29:00] 

[00:29:00] Lucas: Yeah, sure. And, uh, also like I'm sitting here and talking to all the technical end of it, but Sean here, his ear is the best. And if he hears something that doesn't sound right, he instantly will speak up and we'll fix it then. Yeah. I think that's why we make 

[00:29:11] Sean: a good team because Lucas has all the technical savviness of, uh, of tone and, um, you know, the pedals and all the, you know, the recording knowledge, Mike placement and such.

Um, and I'm kinda just, uh, yeah, I'm kind of just the year I, uh, write the songs. 

[00:29:28] Lucas: We make it sound good. 

[00:29:29] Sean: Yeah. I point out very particular things and, uh, you know, I pissed Lucas off quite a bit. I'm sure that I remember just last week, uh, he had finished like his 20th guitar solo for dopamine and I'm like, how is the 21st sound?

And, uh, uh, yeah, but we got it. Um, yeah, we just got to, I guess, keep pissing 

[00:29:48] Lucas: each other off to say this, uh, process is easy, would be a lie. Okay. It's not an easy process, but we get through it and we're proud of it as an estimate. 

[00:29:57] Malcom: Yeah. Proud of it at the end. 

[00:29:59] Lucas: Yeah, [00:30:00] exactly. 

[00:30:01] Malcom: Um, yeah, that's great. All right. Then what I am probably personally most curious about is how you do vocals, um, and especially in an apartment.

[00:30:12] Lucas: Yeah, that's a, that's a good one. So, uh, we, that varies greatly the first time we recorded. Uh, we actually, uh, went to our, uh, bass player, his parents' house, and we put up couch cushions. We chucked Sean into a booth and, uh, we rented a SM seven B, which was great. And, um, uh, we also rented a UA. Compressor EEQ unit UAA six, 10.

That's exactly what it is. Yeah, exactly. Cool. To be honest, uh, didn't actually really know how to use it. We just kind of try to make it sound good. And then we moved on from it. Um, so next time we go use one of those probably would try to learn a little bit more about it and try to actually, you know, figure.

A bit more, but it seemed to work. That was our [00:31:00] second, second single week we came out. And I remember you saying that the vocal sounded pretty good from it. Um, so that's how we did our first one. And, uh, the next time, uh, we were like, uh, I think I just got a little bit confident and not thinking too much into it, but I was like, I got a, a Rhodes , which is a large diaphragm condenser mic.

And we're like, you know what, we're just gonna throw Shaun into my closet. We're going to sound proof as much as possible. And, uh, we're just going to try with us. And I think it was also probably a bit of a budget thing. Um, So we also, I should actually specify all those gear. We talked about the seven B and the CNA.

We rented it from law McQuade. I'm sure whoever's listening to this music store wherever you are probably rent out this type of gear. Um, so we don't, we didn't actually own that, but I did currently own this a condenser mic. So I was like, you know, let's try this, you know, big studios, you can use condenser mics.

We can use a condenser mic and a. I think it was a little bit, probably it was definitely more [00:32:00] difficult just because it was picking up every single thing in the apartment. It was just, yeah, it was a little bit ambitious to use it, but you know, the song still turned out. Well, it obviously probably suck a little bit more on your end.

I would imagine to make it sound good rather than the seven 

[00:32:13] Malcom: B. I can't remember if it was that tune, but I remember one of them had like a lot of pre-roll and post-roll so for example, Seeing a verse and then there'll be silent. So you come in on the next verse or something, but there'll be like you Shaun breathing and like waiting for it to come.

And like sometimes talking to Lucas, being like a little more headphones stuff. Yeah. And then I like started cleaning all that out and then I sent you guys to mix it and then you guys were like, Hey, we're missing one of those noises. And it was like, you'd be like, yeah. Or something like that. I was like, oh, that's meant to be in there.

I had no idea. 

[00:32:47] Lucas: We were just, uh, thanks for doing that because that's not your job to do that. That was our job to do that. And we also learned that that's our job to be doing, cleaning that stuff up. 

[00:32:57] Malcom: Oh, good. All good. But, uh, so, so [00:33:00] you use the condenser and then what followed that? 

[00:33:03] Lucas: Well, after we used the condenser, uh, I was just like, I think it was after we had a conversation.

I was like, you're not, we live down to. Can answer's not, not too great. My choice. So we went back to the seven B, we didn't use the compressor IQ for it or anything. We just rented another seven B we did it in Sean's apartment and his, I think it was in his closet. 

[00:33:22] Sean: Oh, no, we actually just set up, uh, another pillow Fort and in different spots now.

Okay. Just a big pillow for guys. Yeah. 

[00:33:32] Lucas: We'll make it work. Some heavy blankets pillows. And, uh, I had a little bit of foam, I think I brought over and that was the. 

[00:33:40] Sean: Create a room, use what you have be creative. Yeah. Make it 

[00:33:44] Lucas: work. Um, so that was the technical end of it. We'd throw Sean in a booth booth. He would, uh, um, sing like one take and we're like, this is absolutely amazing.

Like we, we probably don't have to just say we're going to obviously, but, uh, he's just so [00:34:00] consistent with his voice and nails it every time. So it made it. Thank you, sir. 

[00:34:05] Malcom: Yeah, you, you really do have a talent, Shawn. It's, uh, it's remarkable. Totally remarkable. I love, love and mixing your 

[00:34:12] Sean: vocals. Thank you very much.

I think we all have a talent yourself included. Thank 

[00:34:16] Lucas: you. So question for you, Malcolm, uh, going forward, would you also say the seven? B's probably the best route to go when you're recording in a setting like. 

[00:34:25] Malcom: Yeah, I distinctly liked whatever was done on dopamine. The latest song that, that isn't noticing he goes looking for that 

[00:34:33] Lucas: pillow for it.

[00:34:34] Malcom: Yeah. Okay. There we go. Yeah. I thought that worked really well. Um, uh, yeah, I was happy all around. I also noticed that it was more consistent across levels, um, from part to part, I don't know if that was intentional, um, and across like the other vocal. I don't know why it would have been different on other songs, but some I would go around and clip, gain different parts up and down kind of thing.

It might even be like a, [00:35:00] uh, an experience thing in that you're maintaining a more consistent distance from the mic or something. I was 

[00:35:06] Sean: just thinking that, um, I have been known to sway around, uh, trying to, trying to get in the mood and stuff. Um, but yeah, that consistency is very important and I will definitely be focusing on that the future and would recommend, uh, all vocals.

[00:35:19] Malcom: Yeah, no, it was great. Like this one was smooth. I was very happy with it. Um, and, and at the end of the day, emotion trumps technical stuff, you know, so if you need to sweat, you got to sway. So, yeah, that was great. Um, you, you didn't have too much of a like room reflection going on. You did send it to me with reverb.

I remember, but we fixed that up. Um, and that's probably actually been, uh, something we can mention the learning curve. Operating your dog was probably the biggest, the biggest thing of all of this for figuring out new skills. Oh yeah, 

[00:35:55] Lucas: absolutely. It was, uh, like, you know, I'm still figuring out stuff. I use logic pro X [00:36:00] for anyone who doesn't know about that out there.

Um, so I'm still figuring things out all the time, but it's nice to know shortcuts and stuff now they've been huge. Um, but uh, yeah, like back on that note where you're saying you had to re reverb, like we always do. Sometimes a little bit compression, but always Sean wants to hear that river when he's tracking.

Cause it gets some, you know, a little bit more in the. So that was just me forgetting to turn off the reverb. 

[00:36:24] Malcom: So be careful when you're sending tracks to your mixer to turn off the stuff that's not meant to be going out. 

[00:36:29] Lucas: Exactly. Drives a 

[00:36:30] Malcom: bone dry as a boot. Um, I think there was a little bit on one of like the backing vocals and I was like, oh, perfect.

That sounds great. I'll just leave it. Yeah. So that was totally fine. Um, so, so that was all good. And one thing that I think I picked up, um, over. Like from the first song you did on your own to this one. Um, and for our listeners, you've been doing a single at a time. If that wasn't already clear, it's, it's kinda been like one song at a time.

Um, was the, [00:37:00] the vocal production in having like loaves and doubles and harmonies and stuff like that. It seems like more went into that, on this song, comparatively to, uh, peppermints, I think was the second song we 

[00:37:11] Lucas: did, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think we focused, uh, I wanted to make sure, like, the course is bigger.

So we were focusing on make sure, making sure those doubles were there and they were, you know, identical kind of thing. Yep. Yeah. 

[00:37:24] Sean: And the harmonies, you know, I, I typically just make up on the spot. I'm like, what, what will make sense? What will sound good? What will be on time and actually compliment the song?

So, uh, yeah, that might vary from time to time. Uh, yeah, we usually come up with some pretty sweet, they have, 

[00:37:39] Malcom: you did. It was great. Um, it was just that there was more of it, I think, on, on this one or not. I love that. It's nice having that to work with. Um, and again, your voice being so fantastic. It's give me the more, the better.

[00:37:53] Lucas: Yeah. We want to give options for sure. If you don't want to use a harmony, you won't use it, but if you have it there and you can then. 

[00:37:59] Malcom: Yeah. [00:38:00] And like you said, Sean, you're you're listening. Like, does this sound good? That's really, all you have to do is think, does this improve the song? Yes. Yeah. 

[00:38:09] Lucas: Funding it back on that note of just stacked harmonies.

When we were doing our second single peppermints, we, uh, Sean had layered. I see like 10 harmonies, 11 armies or something like that. And it was like, it sounded like a Disney song. It was just, it was hilarious. And we just had them all cranked up. Cause we were recording them at Amazon and like hearing the first mixed backer.

Okay. This is actually what it was supposed to sound like, but it was funny when we first hear or heard it and just hear this huge stack of vocals. It was like, this is just like straight out of a Disney 

[00:38:36] Sean: film. If you're listening, you know, I, uh, I'm open to, uh, ideas. I'm flexible. 

[00:38:43] Malcom: The Disney and Sean Lennon's collab.

So there there's an organ in this song that you sent me. Um, how did you do, how do you handle keys? 

[00:38:53] Lucas: That was actually, I think that's the only song I've ever used. Uh, the [00:39:00] Oregon, or even Midian, to be honest, that. Um, so I just grabbed something off a logic that I liked and it sounded good. And it was just, uh, it was really just adding a texture, trying to make that part sound fuller than it was.

So it was, I was trying to, you know, aim it for more of a light background type of thing. So it was really just experimenting and, uh, we put it in there and, uh, I think a couple of guys were like, oh, I didn't even hear it. But it was like, but then when you turn it off, it's like, okay. Yeah, that sounds a little bit more full.

Yeah, a little bit of a trial and error. 

[00:39:29] Malcom: Did you just use the most to program that in or did you have a mini keyboard? 

[00:39:33] Lucas: Yeah, I have a mini keyboard. It's like a, a Kai MPK mini. Yeah. 

[00:39:39] Sean: And of course the feature on domain. 

[00:39:43] Lucas: Yeah. 

[00:39:43] Malcom: Oh yeah. So we don't know when this is coming out. So careful what you say because you haven't, you haven't revealed that yet.

[00:39:50] Sean: Sorry. Well, we can work around 

[00:39:52] Malcom: that. Uh, yeah. Cause depending on when this comes out or when the song comes out, this is leave. Uh, but yeah, you have a mystery guest and that's [00:40:00] actually all my, my list of topics here as well. The, I want to do this, kind of hear your experience, leaving the name out. Yeah, I think, um, w what made you think to do that?

And what was the process like getting a remote tracks sentence, I guess it's not that new to YouTube, because as we've mentioned, Brett, We're sending tracks and not ready, but, uh, this was somebody that not in the band and actually not even in the country. 

[00:40:24] Lucas: Yeah. So yeah, I'll get into it before. I mean, not saying too much, I played a large-scale country music festival many years ago, and I had an opportunity to meet tons of artists and session players and stuff.

And I met this one guy who's just amazing, you know, talked to him once in a while here and there. You know, briefly kind of stayed in touch. And then I had, we were tracking the song dopamine and, uh, I'm like, I am hearing this background. I'll just say it pedal steel in it. I'm like this. I want this here as a texture.

I don't want it to be some big 20 country thing, but like, I'm [00:41:00] hearing this background thing and I got a guy in mind and I had met this guy and I reached out to him and he plays with huge names. Say the least. And, uh, he was gracious enough to lend his services. So we had sent him, uh, uh, it was like a, it was like our second rough track.

It was rough. And he heard it. He was like, yeah, I love it. That's great. And then like a couple of weeks later, he had sent us pedal steel tracks and we were pumped on them. They sound great. 

[00:41:31] Malcom: Awesome compliments, a common theme among the like elite country musicians. Come across in my time. And it is that they all are very capable of recording their own parts.

Like every single one of them is able to do that to a very good degree, 

[00:41:48] Lucas: which is awesome. Yeah. I think he has his own studio at home too. He, you know, there in Nashville, he has a good means of recording. Yeah, totally. Especially for what we were getting him to do. Like, um, I don't know how many [00:42:00] takes he took, but I'm sure it didn't take long for him to send us something that was absolutely amazing.

[00:42:06] Malcom: Yeah, nailed it as well. Right. So, so that's awesome. Um, so yeah, Lynn you've by that, like we've done drums, bass guitars, vocals, keys, and special guests, even in this conversation. So at that point you wrap it all up. You sent it to me. Um, and, and then you patiently wait to hear from me, I guess I would just love to hear it from your side.

Um, because I know what it's like from my side, but I don't know what it's like from your side. So what are, what is it like when you send me tracks? What does that feel 

[00:42:39] Lucas: like? Um, for me, because I'm the one that is export it out of the computer, uh, it's it's nerve wracking because as much as I love the critique and, and everything, it was like, I just don't want to say.

Bad tracks. I don't want to send something or accidentally send something where something is cut out like recently. Like I want to [00:43:00] make sure everything's there and everything sounds the way it is. So, um, number one tip for myself and anyone going forward is, uh, when you export your tracks, popping into a new project to make sure everything is going to sound good.

So. For me, that's kind of one of the main things that I, you know, just making sure that you're sending the right tracks and you're sending them in 48, not 44.1, which is what we did on one of the singles. And I'm like, oh, okay, I'll go back and send it in 48. You can't do that. There's you just can't do that.

[00:43:31] Malcom: It's not a big deal. It was just that I knew that we were going to be doing more songs. Together. So it was just like, oh, just moving forward, stick with 48. Definitely. That's kind of the standard, but 44 1, like nobody thinks that song, nobody hears a difference. It's good now is still defined. Um, so, so yeah, that, that, that is a tip we've recommended on the podcast before.

Take all your bounced export attracts throw them into a blank session and make sure that it actually is all there in this case. [00:44:00] It's normally, normally I can tell it happened because it's like audio just gets cut off. But in this case, the missing track was mostly there and there was. Silent bits in between guitar licks, essentially.

Yeah. And I had no idea that it was missing. It was just like you no guitar in that course. Um, and you were like, Hey, I can't hear it. And I was like, there isn't one. I don't know what you're talking about. That we, we figured it 

[00:44:20] Lucas: out. Yeah. That's funny. Cause we sat there listening to the revision as a band.

We're like, did he really cut that out? And I'm thinking, I instantly thought to myself, I'm like, there's no way he would've just cut out a part. That's not his job is to be cutting out complete part. So I went back. I'm like, okay, that's definitely what happened. That's on 

[00:44:39] Malcom: me. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So glad we sorted that out.

Um, and then, uh, like I'd be curious to hear, is it, do you have like enough feedback from me or is it like awkward radio silence where you're like, what's going to happen? Are we, when do we hear from them? Or are you just calm? And you're like, oh, we'll hear from them eventually 

[00:44:58] Sean: for me, it's just excitement.

[00:45:00] Uh, I'm stoked to hear. I, uh, yeah, I know you do good 

[00:45:03] Lucas: work, so yeah. And for anyone listening, it's not like your, your turnaround. Uh, isn't a very long, you, you have a pretty quick turnaround on your first, uh, first, uh, uh, mix. You do, like, it's pretty quick that we can hear it and your revisions come really quick offer.

So it's not like sitting in there huge anticipation for weeks on end or anything like that. Right. So it's nice. As soon as a, you know, I export it and send it to you, we can pretty much guarantee that we'll have something back. Um, so it's, it's really just exciting to hear what you're able to do with these tracks that we have spent so much time on.

Right. 

[00:45:38] Malcom: Yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah. I mean, that pretty much is, uh, a start to finish process for, for how, what future makes a song, I guess. Um, is there anything that you two think we're missing or haven't touched on? 

[00:45:52] Lucas: Um, well, uh, including, uh, you and the podcast in the whole process would be a dishonor [00:46:00] to just not do that.

So there's no possible. We would have done this album, if it wasn't for the podcast or if it wasn't for the person mixing our album to be part of the podcast and someone that we could immediately bounce these ideas off. So like for anyone listening, just make sure you're listening. It's fantastic. The podcast is great.

Like I just, I wouldn't, and my confidence has just been gained through listening to it and just doing it and everything. So like it's. Amazing. And it, it feels like right now it's a bit of a unique situation that like our mixer and master is the guy running the podcast where I am learning how to record my own band from, and for anyone else listening out there like this is, I feel like you're going for affordability depending on what your budget is.

Obviously this is the way to do it. The amount of knowledge. Every episode is absolutely amazing. So like we just [00:47:00] simply would not be able to do this and we probably would have pooled our money together and went into the studio and did one other single, but like to do an album to just be able to do as many songs as we want to do.

Uh, this is the way to do it. And we possibly couldn't. We just couldn't. I've done. Without the podcast. 

[00:47:20] Sean: And, uh, if your band sucks, a business, check out his other podcasts, your band stocks, a business. It's awesome. Very helpful stuff. That's the 

[00:47:28] Lucas: one I 

[00:47:28] Malcom: listened to all the time. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you both for that.

That's awesome. Um, Yeah, I, I think it is a bit of a unique situation and it's cool that it's happening and working as well. That's, that's an important part. It is working every song that I've gotten from you guys has been better than the last and how it's recorded and, and engineered. It's just been, the quality has been going up and up, and those are skills that you're going to be able to take with you moving forward as well.

Even if you do get bigger budgets and go, go back to working in the studio rather than self recording. [00:48:00] At some point, it's still so helpful to have these skills. Right. Um, just for demoing or for adding overdubs after a studio session, all of that stuff it's relevant. It's just kind of part of being a modern musician these days, I think.

Um, so yeah, really stoked on how it's been turning out. Um, likewise, I would mention that. Lucas you're, you're kind of like the, as been mentioned that the technical head of operations for your band, everybody kind of leaves it up to you. It sounds like for getting the dials turned a little bit. Um, what I, well, I guess you and I have worked together in different bands, like got, you've been in the studio with me countless times actually now.

I think we did your other band shepherd, multiple songs and studio. Um, you were in the studio with chase Spencer we've mentioned earlier, um, for, for a bunch of stuff as well. Like we've spent a lot of time together in the studio. So do you think that experience of, of actually. Citi. And beside me, while you're [00:49:00] recording guitar helped you kind of get the, your initial skill 

[00:49:03] Lucas: base up.

Absolutely. It did. Um, so many things, so many things I was able to take away from being in a studio that if I had never been into a real professional studio and I just went to go record myself, it definitely wouldn't have been the product that we're pushing out now. Like. Like little things and like not, I mean, they're not little, they're huge.

Like who makes sure you're changing the strings, make sure you ensure you're holding the guitar, right? The things to listen for the checklists, everything like that is so beneficial. And that's actually one point I would definitely like to make. And I'm glad that we also did it with this new project too, of getting into the studio with a producer and doing one full single that if you can do that and then have something to base, the rest of the record off is amazing.

Like the fact that. We have the super professional glossy thing to listen to, and then base off of the rest of the record off. That is amazing. So to be in a [00:50:00] studio, Is so beneficial in so many ways. Right? So I would definitely recommend that if you can afford it to go in there, even just do a single, you would learn so much and now have been in the studio over the years and now have produced a little bit, my own bands record now to go back into a studio again, like I feel like my, you know, eyes and ears are going to be.

More wandering around the studio, seeing what's kind of going on. So it's going to be exciting to get back into another full studio again. It's gonna be 

[00:50:30] Malcom: great. Told them yeah. It's, uh, it's educational as much as it is beneficial for the actual product, the music that comes out of it, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, 

[00:50:38] Lucas: absolutely.

It is. Yeah. And I'm sure he felt the same way too. When you produced your band's record back in the day and then went in for the second record and was able to like, you know, shadow everyone. And I'm kind of excited to get into that process eventually. Absolutely. That's 

[00:50:51] Malcom: great. Yeah. Well, uh, Lucas, John, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.

Um, everybody go listen to wet future on [00:51:00] Spotify, apple music, whatever you'd like to listen to on there. They're wicked. They're the pride and joy of Victoria. If you ask me. Right on. Okay. Well, uh, yeah, any anywhere else we should send people. If they want to check 

[00:51:13] Lucas: you out. Spotify, Instagram, apple music, anywhere that you listen to music, Deezer, 

[00:51:22] Malcom: SoundCloud, 

[00:51:24] Sean: sort of.

[00:51:25] Malcom: Into YouTube. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys got tasting music, subscribe button, if you want. Yeah. Right on. Okay. Um, and, and Lucas, I know you at least are in the self according band, Facebook community. Definitely. Sean, if you're not joined now and people can connect with you there as well. Okay. Well, thank you all for listening and thank you too, for coming on the show.

[00:51:47] Lucas: Thanks so much for having us it's uh, it was shocking that you asked us. I wasn't, I wasn't prepared. Um, but I'm glad you did. And I've listened to so much. I mean, I've listened to 95% of the episodes now, so it's exciting to be sitting on the [00:52:00] other side of it. Awesome. 

Right 

[00:52:01] Malcom: on. Okay. Thank you very much, guys.

Awesome. 

[00:52:04] Lucas: Thanks. .