170: Case Study: Robin & Clint (Roobey Records, Snakes In The Pit) On Starting A Studio, The Importance Of Focus And Becoming Confident In Your Work

170: Case Study: Robin & Clint (Roobey Records, Snakes In The Pit) On Starting A Studio, The Importance Of Focus And Becoming Confident In Your Work

I sat down with Clint & Robin, two amazingly talented producers, engineers and musicians from Hamburg, Germany. I've been working with them for about a year now, helping them refine their audio skills and guiding them through the process of starting their own studio.


Book a free feedback call with Benedikt, the host of the show!

During that time I was constantly blown away by the conversations we had on our coaching calls and the music they submitted for feedback. 

When they joined the Self-Recording Syndicate it was clear that they were very talented, but they were also lacking focus, systems and a reliable process to get amazing results consistently and with confidence. 

So they took it seriously, put in the work, were always open for new ideas and things to try, produced super exciting records and started getting their first paid projects in their studio, Roobey Records.

They have built out their studio rigs, created processes and a better workflow for themselves and feel so much more confident about their work now, compared to just a few months ago.

Clint & Robin both also play in Snakes In The Pit, a hardcore band from Hamburg, and Clint is an experienced touring drummer. His credits include playing drums for ZSK (a huge German punk band) on their tour with Rise Against.

Their combined skillset and network lets them offer a perfect package to bands and artists that are looking for a big, modern and polished production aesthetic, while still sounding like a real band.

Super stoked to share Robin's and Clint's story with you!


Let's go!



Automatic Episode Transcript — Please excuse any errors, not reviewed for accuracy (click for full transcript)

Benedikt: Confidence. Having a goal in mind, following a process and trusting that process to know where you want to go to put in the work you're patient, you follow and trust the process and your focus, then it will take you where you wanna go. . Hello and welcome to the Self Recording Band podcast. I am your host, Benedictine, and if you're new to the show, welcome. Thank you for checking us out. If you are already a listener, thank you for coming back. We really appreciate you today. I am not here. With Malcolm own flood as usual, but I'm here with two of my self recording syndicate members, Robin Beckman and Clint Ka. Welcome. Uh, hello. Those two have joined the coaching program, the self recording syndicate about a year and like not a half ago, but like I think 14 months or so, early 2022. And since then we've been working together and the two of them are, Great musicians, engineers, um, they collaborate because, so they are starting their own studio together actually, or have been doing that for a while, which is very interesting. We're gonna talk about that. They play in a band together called Snakes and the Pit. Uh, they have multiple projects going on, like too many for me to listen in this intro, so I'm gonna let them do it themselves. Uh, they are overall like very creative, active people in the music scene, do various projects, and I'm, I'm super stoked to have them on the show because they have many exciting things to share. They've been crushing it. They have been submitting really good, good work, um, great mixes, great recordings. They've been working with exciting artists and I can't wait to tell you their story or let them tell you their story. And so, yeah. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for coming to the podcast.

Clint: Yeah. Yes. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Exactly. It's a great honor and we're very happy to be here. Yeah, awesome. So

Benedikt: cool. So, uh, I, I think I forgot to mention the studio name. Uh, it's called Ruby Records, right? Yeah,

Clint: that's correct. It might be a bit misleading cuz it's obviously called records and we're just recording facility more or less, but it's part of our story cuz Robin and I have been making music together. I don't know, probably since we were 10 or something. Yeah. So that would be almost 20 years. And we've always been dreaming of doing this, so we're super stoked to finally be at this point. And it's been the name that we saved our files as back then in like two thousands. Six. I don't know. Wow. Yeah, so we, we know that it's for studio, sort of a misleading name, but we still wanted to go that way cuz we wanted to it to be as authentic as possible. And that's just what we've always been dreaming of. Awesome.

Benedikt: So you, you guys have been friends for, for a very long time. Um, yes. This is what I'm getting from that. Yeah. This is very cool. So the, the different, the main difference, I just wanna tell people real quick. The main difference between you and many of the other, um, syndicate members that we have is that you are not just doing it as a hobby, but you're actually turning this into a career. Um, it's, I think at the, at this point it's, it's a side thing sort of for both of you. So you do multiple projects and you have other, other jobs also in the creative, um, sort of field, but you do other things as well. But you are a little more, um, ambitious when it comes to your music career compared to like the people who do it just for self actualization, which is totally fine too, but there's a little more to it in your case. So, Before we met, before we decided, before you decided to sign up for the syndicate, give me a quick rundown of what things look like for you as producers, mixers, and, and self recording artists. Like what have you done the past couple of years? What was your journey and have you guys, when ha when did you guys decide to collaborate and, and build this studio together? Alright,

Clint: so I think it all started from back in the day when, what I was just mentioning, that we were playing together. Robin was playing guitar, I was playing drums, and we would be in different bands. You would also play bass occasionally. And we started recording ourselves just like, I don't know, you've been listening to this podcast and you know how it goes. So it's just the typical story that we were always trying to make things sound better. But um, yeah, we sort of, when we finished high school, we sort of went. Different directions, although Robin at least chose to, um, follow sound related things at least, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I dunno. Yeah,

Robin: you wanna, um, I worked or I'm, um, I'm still working for a company called, uh, tone Works and, uh, we are doing more like, uh, voiceover and general voice acting stuff. And, um, so a few years ago I run into to this, um, to this niche, to this branch. Um, but, uh, yeah, I always wanted to do music and together with Clint, so, um, Yeah, I don't know, three years ago or something like that, we kind of decided to, Auckland kind of uh, decided to go this way and now we finally met together. Yeah. To hopefully reach this goal.

Clint: Mm-hmm. It's actually quite funny cuz uh, I have been looking into recording school possibilities in Germany and then I talked to a befriended engineer who sort of talked me out of it. So I did a degree in business administration and for that I moved to a different city in Germany and that's why we sort of, I don't wanna say lost track of each other, but uh, we were just not playing together or anything like that. Although Robin ended up being our session base cuz I was playing in bands in that city as well. And it's always still been on my mind that I wanted to do music production right when I would finish that degree. So once I was done with it, I interned at a local recording studio for a few months, and then I had another look into different possibilities and I found a public school in Germany and then I. Started studying music production there in 2018. And that's sort of, yeah, we've never, um, lost track of wanting to do this. And um, it's funny cuz yesterday Robin and I were chatting a little bit and I was li listening to old files and found a message, um, that I had sent to him like two years ago. And I, I said something like, ah, and we just need to get that M 32, which is the recording desk we're using now, and then we can finally do this thing. And now two years later we are already, we're actually doing that. And a lot of those things we've been. We've kept telling each other and now we're beyond that point, which is really cool.

Benedikt: Awesome. This, this sounds really great. So, but just to, to, to make sure I understand this right, so you took the advice of that engineer you talked to and you didn't go to audio school first, but then you basically ignored the advice again and you went to audio school? Or is it like a different type of school? Yeah.

Clint: No, no. It's a different type of advice. It's not like he entirely taught me out of it. It's more of a typical thing. You should have a plan B, which, okay, today I'm not really sure if I wanna do the same thing again. I also like the idea of not having a plan B. Yeah. But since I don't see myself working for a big. Corporation. Um, it's actually like I don't have a plan B now. Yeah. Cause I don't, you know. Yeah. Even if I had to do a different job, it probably wouldn't be working for a huge Yeah. Um, yeah. Corporation.

Benedikt: Yeah. You know, this is a hot topic because I can't, I can't, on a, on a, like a medium like this, I, with my audience, I, I can't give advice. Like, don't do any like, formal education. Just do whatever you want, you know? And that I can't, I can't do that. That would be irresponsible. But at the same time, I'm a strong believer in not having a plan B and just going after what you want to do. So, uh, this is also exactly what I did, but I know that for a lot of people, this will, um, lead to failure and I don't want that. So, um, But I also believe that if you put 100% of your time and energy into one thing and you have a clear focus and you have the talent that it takes and the work ethic that it takes, then there is not much that can go wrong. Actually. You, you just have to follow through. So, uh, but I also think that the, the fact that you have this business degree, or you that you said it, this is not a bad thing in your case, if you wanna be self-employed, you know, a lot of the things you learn, they probably are not really applicable to what you do. But still, there's probably, I don't know, but I think there's probably value in it, uh, if you wanna be self-employed and run a business. So some of those things might actually help you. So I think that does, don't think it was a bad decision. And then studying the, or going to audio school again, this was, is this like a different thing? So I, I got it that way that you didn't go to the typical private schools that a lot of people go to, which I also n wouldn't necessarily recommend, but instead you went to a public school and, and, and, and what, what kind of school is that? Like what, what opportunities are there even in Germany to do this if you don't go to the typical big private

Clint: schools out there? First of all, it's a very awesome thing about Germany that you get the opportunity to study without having to pay tuition fees. So it's, I mean, you have to pay a very small amount around 300 euros per semester. But it's, I mean, if you know the fees that they have to pay in America, for example, it's, it's ridiculous. And, um, I went to a proper music school. So, and that was really important to me cuz I didn't wanna just be taught, uh, technical stuff like audio engineering, but I wanted to improve as a musician as a whole. Mm-hmm. So in my case, I got to choose music production as my main instrument and all my fellow students, for example, my most of my friends are drummers, so they chose pop drumming. There's also jazz and classic and musical even. And my friends, for example, they have drums as their main instrument. And then you have to have another harmony instrument. So most chose piano. And in my case, I got to choose two instruments plus my actual main instruments instrument was music production. So I got. Like one and a half hours of one-on-one music production lesson per week, plus 45 minutes of, well, I didn't pick drumming. I picked piano as my main instrument. So I got 45 minutes of piano and 30 minutes of guitar as my second instrument, which is incredible. I mean, think about that. Plus you get to. Um, participate in the whole musician and the college life where you also get to play in different bands. Like every semester you need to pick one band. I started with a Regi combo where the, um, teachers are. In that case, it was the musically director for Sammy de Lukes who taught us. So that's a huge, uh, German, um, band. And you get to work with those people and just make music together. And that was something I was, that was very important to me to be able to better myself as a musician rather than just EQing for and dialing in compressors for three years or whatever.

Robin: Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I think the connections you, you got from, from your, uh, time there are very big, uh, for very, very big value for us. And uh, that's also great that you met so many, um, producers there and people who are doing music, uh, their whole life. And yeah, we can really benefit from

Clint: that. That's great. Yeah. One other thing I I've found very interesting about the whole thing is to actually know where you are within the music scene. Cuz I always thought of myself as a decent drummer and then I spent one year in Florida going to a high school there, and all of a sudden everyone, including the 13, 13 year old kid would just, I mean, I, to this day I haven't seen anyone play that well. And uh, um, just knowing that those people, I mean, they only accept like four. People per semester, per instrument. And there's a lot of people applying for those, uh, music schools. But it's awesome to be part of that community and to actually know that you're not as bad as you might think or you probably not as good as you might think, but you sort of know what you can sell yourself as cuz you got the comparison, which is

Benedikt: awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So there's a couple of things to unpack here because what I, that, that's actually cool that you told, uh, the story that, because that was something that I would've asked, um, for anyways because I think the fact that you are, and I'm talking ulin right now, the fact that you. Um, put a lot of time and energy into being, becoming a better musician versus just the engineering side of things is, was a really, really good idea. And I really believe that anyone, even, like, even if you're not a professional musician and you just want quote unquote, just wanna be an engineer or producer, you have to be a good musician to be able to do that properly because you have to be able to speak the language of musicians. You have to be able to understand music in a, in a non-technical way, in a creative way. And, um, and the ability to just show something versus explaining something to people is, is huge. If you work with artists and then obviously you have, uh, um, be being a good musician means you have, um, a different creative sort of angle and a different way of approaching things, I think. And, and what I find interesting is that, The two of you, you're combining pretty cool skill sets that compliment each other very well, because I, I, correct me if I'm wrong, uh, but Robin, you, you are a musician too. And I'm not saying that you can't, you're not, you're not a good musician, but I think you are more the technical person in this collaboration. I think you, maybe I'm wrong here, but with your, I think your editing. Um, your job where you do a lot of editing, a lot of technical stuff, and, and the confidence you have using your tools and your dos and all of that, and maybe also the professional audio environment that you work in, I think that goes really well together with the more, you know, um, maybe a little less structured, but more creative musician type of approach that you have, Clint. So at least that's what I'm observing and I, I can see that work very well that like, one of you could be the more creative sort of producer or musician. The other one could be the, the engineer doing most of the mixing. Maybe, maybe, you know, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but this is what it looks like to me. And, uh, I think that whenever people collaborate, it's good if they are not exactly good at the same things, but if they have their own, you know, um, if they specialize in different things and they have their own unique strength strengths that can compliment each other, and I think that is the case in your case. And, and so Robin, I I'm curious about your musical background, though. I know that you can definitely operate your, your DA and I know that you are, you're tall and I know that you, you, uh, have all the technical. Knowledge you need. But what about your musician background? You play in the same band with Clint. I know you play a couple of instruments and I was honestly blown away by when you first submitted, like when we did the song together, the song from scratch exercise and the coaching where you write, wrote a song from scratch. You wrote it, arranged it, recorded it, mixed it, and all of that. And I was blown away by how creative that was, how well it was written and played and, and the fact that you did it all yourself. And I honestly didn't expect this because as I said, I always thought of you as more of the technical person. Mm-hmm. But that kind of song that you presented there, that you delivered there was really, really cool and really unique. So thanks. I'd love to hear more about your, you too, about your personal, um, music. Background there.

Robin: Yeah. So, um, yeah, as you, as you said, uh, I've working, um, I'm in a band with Clint since, I don't know, uh, actually in different band projects since we are kids. And, um, I'm currently, um, a guitarist in three bands right now. So, um, as I can think, uh, think of, I'm playing in bands, uh, in different projects. I've, yeah. Started, um, playing, uh, acoustic guitar, I think when I was eight, eight years old or so. And from there on I improved, um, my skills. I, um, I think when I was 18 I gave guitar lessons already, so, um, yeah, I am Okay. Um, of I'm improving there. And yeah, we, Clinton and I did, uh, these productions beside of our bands. Mm-hmm. Um, we two met together, spending the whole night to do different kind of projects. And I think, um, because of this, um, because we. Always did that. Uh, I'm kind of, I, I don't think talented is, is right. Uh, word for this, but, um, I think it is. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So yeah, I think you're talented. Definitely. Okay. So we, we teach ourself to, to do like, uh, to do music production very, very early. Um, it's, I mean, it was for fun there, but, uh, I think, um, we learned so much from different bands, different projects. And I also, um, what I also did was, um, kind of life mixing for other bands. Uh, I did, uh, mixing for, for very little festivals and for live streams, and I met, um, a lot of people there, talked to them and, um, Yeah, just, uh, music was always a big thing in my life and, um, yeah. That's cool. Kind of the backstory there.

Benedikt: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Great. So now the, the big question that comes to mind here, and I'm, I pr I'm sure that you're listening to this podcast, now you're asking yourself the same thing. So it's, it all sounds perfect. Like you, you've been making music for years. You've been in the music industry, even you've been working in the music industry or the, the audio engineering sort of world at least. Um, then Clint has all these connections and played in various bands and knows these, these people in the music industry, you are, you have a background where you, you, you properly learned your instruments. You went to school to do that. Um, You learned, you taught yourself audio production early on and, and all those things. So it sounds like the perfect situation and you could just go and use those skills and then build a business out of it and start working and, and all this fine and great. So what, where the challenges though, if we go back like two years or three years from now, like what were the challenges and what was still not quite working for you back then? Or like, because people would be, I'm sure people are asking themselves, why would you even want to join a coaching program like that? Or, or improve your skills further, or what would you want to learn after? Basically already having years of experience plus the connections and all of that. Like, why didn't it work out immediately and what were you, what did you feel like was missing back then still when it comes to skills or knowledge or whatever?

Clint: Okay, so maybe I'm gonna start on this. Um, for me it was always a matter of, you know, learning music production, um, is. A little bit different than learning to play an instrument in the case that there's so many, there's, it's such a huge topic, you know, you could be, um, focusing on a different genre. Like in my university, we have four different years, which, uh, with, with four different teachers. The first one is general recording, then we have band recording, then we have electronic music, then we have firm music. So just that already tells you that music production is a huge topic. And then within that you have all the technical stuff, of course, which I feel like I'm already quite, um, sophisticated with. But there's also, you know, mixing, mastering plus post-production elements and it's very easy to lose track and sort of, um, feel like you are. Trying different things all the time and, uh, putting all your time in it, but without really having a clear goal and clear, um, milestones that you need to reach in order to actually be, um, at a point where you are confident with offering your craft to other people. And one thing that goes, um, even that's a little bit another level, but still doesn't make it easy, is that if you're a drummer, like I was saying earlier, you have maybe 20 different drummers in your city that you know, and you feel like, yeah, you are among the top 10% and you're confident offering your, um, Skirts to a band or whatever. And then if you look at the world, you are just nothing. You know, you could go on Instagram and feel like, oh, I'm gonna quit drumming today. And with music production, it's just, whatever you do is gonna come up right next to your favorite band on Spotify or whatever. And it always sounds weak. At least that's what I thought. And to this date, even mixes, I really like, uh, I sort of happened to be played in a playlist with other productions, and then I'm like, oh, it's actually not that good or whatever. But, um, then I came across Benedict's podcast and his advice on exactly that, that I think the, the advertisement was something like, if you struggle to. Um, get your mixes to sound like, or if you, if you're getting lost in what's out there in terms of tutorials and stuff like that. And I was like, damn, that's exactly what I've been struggling with and none of my teachers has really been able to give me a defined structure for that. So I thought Benedict is. The guy and he is awesome. Yeah. Thank

Benedikt: you. Yeah, it's like, it's like lack of focus. It's, it's really, and this is what, what most people actually struggle with because to be honest, all the information in the world that you could ever need is out there available to everyone. Like you wouldn't have to go to a single for most things actually. You wouldn't have to go to, to a school or study anything. You could in theory learn everything there is on your own, but people still don't do it because it's very, It's, it's super damn hard to do it yourself because you, you don't know what, who to listen to, what is actually applicable to your situation. You, you, you wouldn't pick the ti put in the time to first curate all that information and, and make a plan for yourself and, and, and it's very impossible or very, very, very hard to do that yourself. And also, I remember when we met, if you, that's the, the problem that very talented people have more than anything. And that you had the problem to, to Clint when we met, you had, you were sort of headed in all kinds of directions at the same time. You were playing for bands, you were doing session drumming or like touring drumming for bands and you kind of still do that sometimes big names also in the music industry, which is awesome. Um, you had a. Um, I think also a podcast editing job. Um, I think, and you were going to, to you, you were studying, you were interning and working for other producers. You were playing in, I don't know how many bands at the same time you were thinking about becoming like a producer or do remote mixing or, you know, and there would always be a new thing that comes up that you could actually do because you are talented enough to do all those things. The problem is, if you do all those things at the same time, it's very hard to become really good at any of those things. And then it's, as you said, you, you can't be in the top 10, 20% in your city maybe. But if you go. On a, on a national level or even a worldwide level, then it's gonna be very, very hard to be among the best if you don't have this clear focus on one thing that you really want to be, be really good at. And so this is a problem that very talented and, and people have a lot that are interested in a lot of different things. And so it's not lack of talent, it's not the, it's not lack of a, of work ethic or anything like that. It's just, you know, just, there's too many cool things you could possibly do. And it's like a, a lack of focus is really, is really the thing. And so I'm very glad that you reached out and we, it. I, I, it would be a lie to say that it was easy because, you know, I tried to keep you, hold you accountable and keep you on track and stuff, but also I can understand that you wanna try out different things. So, but I think you're on a, on the, on the right path there. And I think you kind of found things now that you are really good at and also enjoy. And you maybe found other things that you might be doing for now, but it's not something you're gonna be doing forever. And I think it's becoming more clear every day. And so, so yeah, I just wanted to clarify that for people because I think you had everything you needed, but you needed it to be more clear, more focused, and, and you needed the accountability maybe also to do that and, and, uh, so, so, yeah, but very cool. And I'm, I'm glad you chose, you chose me to be, to be a, a part of this. And you also, I know you have also, you also have other mentors that help you with that and, and, which is a good thing too, because then you can compare different approaches and angles and pick the stuff that works for you, you know? And because there's no right or wrong or black or white in music production, it's all art and there's different. Perspectives, different approaches and angles, um, but having one main source of accountability and, and, um, education is definitely beneficial to keep you on track. So, yeah. Very cool. Now, Robin, in your case, what, what was it like there? Because same story, you came to me and you already had more skills than most people, I think, uh, out there who would do a program like that. So you were pretty skilled, but what were you feel like was, was still missing your case? You were a little more focused maybe, but still what was missing?

Robin: Yeah, I think, uh, structure is, is also a thing and um, I think one of the most, Problems or one of the biggest problems, uh, people, for people starting out is, um, you always want to do the fun things. So you, you love to do the mixing stuff, moving, fades, loading plugins, whatever, making music. But what I, I learned from you, what kind of matters more is, uh, the things which are you, you need to force yourself sometimes to do it. So you, you told us, uh, you told me to have a concrete plan, like a business plan. You have your structure in mixing. Uh, so there, there are steps. I, um, I didn't do, uh, because I mean, to be honest, I was kind of lazy and I thought, okay, I always heard of mixed preparation, but why do I need this? It works anyways. But um, yeah, as I learn more and more, um, I. Uh, get the idea of having a, a structure doing, sometimes doing the things which are a bit Yeah. Um, not the, the most fun parts. And, um, yeah, I learned, learned a lot from you there. And also, uh, I think what, uh, Clinton and I, um, learned more, um, in your coaching is, uh, right now is the communication with other artists, um, how to, to make kind of deals or how to reach for them, um, yeah. To have that both sides, like having a goal there and um, yeah. To just communication and structure

Benedikt: there. Yeah. And, and the, the, the, the interesting thing is that the more you focus on getting the, the tedious stuff out of the way, the more time you have to actually do the fun stuff and the more focus you can be in the fun stuff. That's the thing. You don't do the tedious stuff because. Because you do it, because you wanna free up time to be more creative, to focus, to be able to focus more on working directly with the artists on the art and, um, and to, you know, so, uh, it's, it's weird that you first have to put in the work in the, on those things that, um, you don't really wanna do, so that you can then do more of the things that you wanna do. And there's also this, the saying that I keep repeating and. Where there's places where it's like the, the pros never don't do the basics. I just love that quote. You know, there's some things that we, as you said, hmm, mixed prep, who needs that color coding file structure, naming conventions, backup system or whatever. Like all these boring things, we always think like, we can skip this. Um, it's not that important. But to be honest, the pros who have to handle a lot of work or who want to just be creatives most of the time and don't think about those things all the time, they never skip those. They never don't do those basics. They do them every single time because they wanna get consistent results. They wanna be efficient, they wanna have more time to focus on, on the important stuff. And if you don't do that, you constantly having to think about those tedious things because they have to get done anyways. But you have to put way more time into them than necessary. So I, I think you're, you're absolutely right there. So, um, okay. But. We have to clarify, I think there's two different things that we're talking about here, because the main thing we do in the program is to help people make better recordings. The thing you were talking about is like an add-on that we have in the program, which is cool too. It's like talking about the business side of things. In the beginning we kind of mixed it up a little bit, but I wanted to separate it from the main thing because it's not relevant for everybody. So I think most people listening right now are not really interested in the, in the business side of things, but they are artists and wanna make better art. So, um, but if you are someone who's interested in turning that into a business or even just a side hustle or something, then there is an add-on, like a business mastermind where we meet every week and talk about business stuff exclusively now, which I love personally too because it helps me to, um, with, with my business. I love being in masterminds like that. And so we've been working on that side of things too. Uh, but those are kind of different things when it comes to the, um, back to the, like the, the, the creative side of things and the art, what. Made you, I mean, you kind of explained it already, but. Um, did, did you, did you talk to each other before you joined the program or like what, what made you take the plunge to, to doing this? Like, did you talk each other into it or did you decide individually and then you figured out that both did it or like how did that

Clint: go? I talked him into it for sure. My, my biggest fear would always be that Robin, who is, who I know is such a talented musician and he's been doing his audio job, which is great, but I was, um, sort of scared that he would, um, miss the point at which he would still be able to redirect his career, whatever. And, um, When I did the first call with you, I was like, damn, this is so awesome. Robin needs to do this cause awesome, great. That's finally gonna be someone else to open his eyes and show him how capable he would be. And, um, awesome. That's why I picked up the, the phone immediately end was like, yeah, yeah, Robin, you should, you should definitely do that. It's, if we get to know call, you can still not do it, but please take one hour of your time and talk to this guy. And fortunately he did. And he, yeah, I mean, and

Robin: yeah, I was, uh, yeah, you were the, the motivating factor there. And, um, after my call with Benedict, the first call, uh, I was so glad. That I took this opportunity to, yeah. To try this and, um, yeah, I mean, I'm very glad we did this. Yeah.

Benedikt: This is very cool. So now, so let's say thank you for the convers by the way, and also thank you for the referral, Clint. I had no idea that this was how it, how it went actually, I know that you, I kind of knew that you talked to each other, but like, yeah. Um, I should have paid you for that. No. Uh, so, um, now roughly 14 to 16 months later, depending on like, when you, when you exactly started early 2022, let's say, um, What do things look like now, especially in those areas that you were struggling with? Like how do you feel about your skill level and the quality of your recordings and mixes and are there any, any wins worth talking about? Like what's the studio situation now and how have your skills developed? Not, not just in terms of like the coaching program, but in general. But if there's anything that you can, uh, link back to the program, I'm obviously happy to hear that, but like what, what happened during these last one and a half years? Where, where do you feel you are now? In what? In terms of confidence and skill level?

Clint: Okay. Maybe I'm just, go on. So, um, first of all, and that's probably the most important part, we've been having our first clients that actually chose to work with us and, um, were willing to pay us for the workers. So far we've only been doing projects with friends or our own projects cuz we didn't feel confident, um, enough, enough to offer it to other people, but, That's the main thing. Sometimes you just, you are the one that's sorting you back and in the end, people are very happy with what you're able to do. And uh, that's probably the most valuable lesson we've learned is that it's not about what you feel, what your work is gonna be compared to those Grammy award-winning engineers, but it's about if you can help and inspire other projects. And that's especially the last thing we did. We were recording a band for a whole weekend and they surprisingly came with a song that they had already written off and they didn't enjoy playing live. And we were sort of the ones putting new life into it. And all of them left our place, uh, feeling optimistic about life. And, you know, they were really like the, the drummer bought himself new symbols, like the ones I had put. On his kit when we were recording and, um, they were all talking about they wanted to practice the parts and wanted to play that song now, and they couldn't wait how it would beed by the audience life. And we wouldn't have done that if we, you know, hadn't believed in ourself and ourselves or if we hadn't thought that it. You know, that's the, the main value if you, if you can take the artist a step forward and it's not about being the next, making them the next ish or whatever.

Benedikt: Yeah. And, and this might, things like that happen as a result of the process. And you can't really control that. You can't control the outcome. You can only control the process and what you do each day and how you communicate with artists and how you help them with their art, as you said. And if they become like mega stars or not, is out of your control, outside of your control. You can only focus on your own actions each day. And if you believe in yourself and you're confident and you build your skill level, then you can increase the chances of that happening. But it's also, to be honest, it's pretty damn cool just to be able to work on music every single day. Even if you never win a Grammy or you never in the, the billboard charts or whatever. Like I have a. 10 year plus professional music career right now. I've never worked a, a normal job basically, and I've, I've never had a number one or like a platinum record or anything like that, but I think it's so damn cool that I get to work with all these good bands and, and exciting cool people every single day. And I couldn't be happy about that. I think that's a real privilege and, and so I'm glad you, I'm glad you said that and I'm glad you're enjoying the process and, and help you like helping artists bring their vision to life. Cool. And it takes the confidence to do that, as you said. Great.

Clint: Yeah. And regarding the skill level, I mean, we've already talked about this. I've been having a lot of stuff going on. So, um, my main thing, and that's also one thing I'd like to add about the corporation between Robin and I, is that he's actually not the technical guy. Okay. That's me. Interesting, interesting. What he, he just said he likes to push fades and do that. And I've always sort of been the guy to do the. Yeah, the dirty work and the dirty editing. Ah, yeah. Yeah. At least kind, you know, Benedict made, Benedict made you edit drums for the first time, basically. But at this point, okay, wow. It sort of, um, makes sense to split up like that. I mean, obviously I'm trying to improve as mixing, um, engineer, but since I've been editing drums for so many years now and I've been tuning and recording and tuning vocals, um, countless times, so there's really no point, especially with Robin doing a full-time job, whereas I'm just doing part-time job and still studying. Uh, it makes sense that I'm doing all the, that technical work and trying to be sort of Robin's assistant in terms of mixing. I mean, we've been recording those bands together just for him to get, gain more, um, experience with actually recording bands rather than actors and, um, But still I've been doing the editing and sending him the tracks, and he's been able to focus on the mix, which is a great, uh, sort of split of work and well, obviously we've both been working on those projects creatively and, um, yeah.

Benedikt: But yeah, still. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. Still makes sense though, although I got that wrong. But it still makes sense though because editing is, is a technical thing, but it is working on the performance. So, and what I always believe is that you, I I was, I always had the, uh, the perception of that. It's like that you, Clint, are very, you have a very good ear for like Yeah. Performances the music. It's without like diving too deep into like technical side of things. You can do that and you can't operate it all, of course. But I think having heard some of your more, um, natural, raw, organic things that you did, Like jazz acoustic music, stuff like that. I like it just, there's just no, no denying that. You are very, very musical, very talented in that. And I think editing is, although it's a technical skillset, it requires you to understand the performance, to understand what feels good and what doesn't. And to do it in a way that it actually helps the song and not just as a purely technical step. So it kind of still makes sense to me that you are kind of working on the performances and then Robin takes over and does the mixing, which you are also really good at Robin and I'm, you know, but you both could do both. But I think specializing in those things is it's not a bad idea. And, and so, so yeah. That, that's,

Clint: that's cool. I mean, we have, we have had pro uh, projects where I ended up doing the mix. It, it's always like we're trying to mix both, uh, to do mixes, one each, and then compare and then sort of steal the, the elements from each other. But, uh, more often than not, Robin is gonna win those things, but especially when it comes to more, um, acoustic singer songwriter sort of stuff, um, I was actually quite, um, I don't know. I, we ended up picking my mixes over his, so there is sort of, uh, focus that we both have in mixing and,

Benedikt: yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I always have to say though that, that Robin put in a lot of time into mixing exercises and practices throughout the coaching also, where you were kind of doing a lot of things at the same time, Clint, which is just as valuable, but it's like, it was less focused than in, in, in Robin's case, and just Robin put in the time to do a lot of mixed. Practice and exercises. And so I think that helps with, with that of course. And I think the more intuitive, um, organic loose type of mixes and like the more sparse arrangements and that sort of stuff that fits you really well, Clint, because I feel like you can just do, you can just go with the flow and, and, and just do whatever you, you hear and, and whatever you like, how, how you feel about the song and how you perceive it. And I just, I think that fits you, suits you very well. Whereas Robin attacks the bigger projects with like the huge track count and the more heavy stuff and the more detailed work maybe based because of the, the, the experience and, and work he put in, um, during these past year or so. So

Robin: yeah, and I mean, it's, it's not about, uh, winning at this point.

We, we cooperate and, uh, we are constantly learning from each other. So I think that's a great thing. Also, great thing that Clint can, uh, show some, some, uh, tricks and hacks and recording may be. Um, and on the other side, on the other hand, I can tell them a, a few things, um, regarding mixing. Um, yeah, I think that's, that's a great thing that we can learn from each other in this corporate, uh, corporate thing. And yeah. Cool.

Benedikt: So, so how, how do you feel about your, um, skill level now, Robin, at the moment?

Robin: Um, I really think I really improved, uh, during, um, the last. Two years, um, at this point, because as Clint said, I, um, was kind of, um, I of, I just recorded voice actors, which is a great thing too. But, um, to go out with a band doing a whole record, um, setting mics up, I did this before, but, uh, not in that sensitive and, um, yeah, focused way Clint does. So, um, I learned a lot there. Um, I had a few, um, editing, uh, exercises Benedict you gave me. So I learned a lot from there as well. And, uh, yeah, when it comes to mixing, um, where I brought, um, some, uh, stuff, some, uh, skills already before the coaching, I think that now I'm. I'm more structured, I'm more, uh, I have a plan before I even mix. I know exactly kind of exactly what I'm, uh, reaching for and yeah, you kind of help me, um, to have, yeah, like, uh, I said a structure and I don't have to, um, do every, every time start from the scratch. I have a plan and, um, I know what I'm going for and, uh, yeah, I think this is what I really improved.

Benedikt: Awesome.

Yeah. Awesome. Now, what are some, let's, let's talk about your work actually. What are some projects currently, like some current projects you're working on and what are or maybe past projects that you're proud of during the, this last year or so and what are your plans for the next few months? So years, like what are you working on in, in the studio at the moment?

Clint: Uh, we've been working together with a sort of hair glam metal band from Germany and we've done one song by them. They call it Christa Steel in case you want to look it up. And, um, we've just been recording or I have been recording drums with them last week. And so right now I'm, uh, editing the tracks and we're trying to find new dates for the vocalists to come in. Uh, that band is actually sort of a self recording artist, so they're tracking the guitars and bass themselves and they're producing the whole thing. So that's very cool cuz we, we can focus on sort of the overall bird's eye view and just get the drums right and, um, and the vocals, which obviously are the most important part. And, um, we've been also working with another. Hard rock slash metal band from Hamburg, um, rising Northlight where we are, um, currently communicating about how we're going to keep doing this. So that's already, I mean, we are still on that, but we're going to keep working with them. We have a proc rock band from Hamburg as well, where we are currently finishing the mix and we, we are, um, finishing our own album together with, uh, Benedict who's mixing it. So, but yeah, we have a few inquiries that we're taking care of at the moment, but the most time we've been putting into. Setting up our website and, well, not the most time, obviously the most time dangerous. Yeah, no, that's probably just the last 24 hours. Yes. The

Benedikt: professional engineers spent most time setting up their websites. That's the

Clint: reality people. Yeah. No, no. But, um, all of that business stuff has taken up some time, but yeah, it does. Um, yeah, we're, we're trying to have our website online by the time this podcast comes out and, um, Yeah. Robin, you want to add something?

Robin: Yeah. And uh, we quite a few projects. That's really cool. Mm-hmm. And we will go more into social media stuff as well, because that's a thing we, um, yeah, let's decide a bit over the, over the past month and, uh, we want to focus more on that, uh, on that. Yeah. Social media stuff as well. And, um, yeah. But you can, uh, find us of course, on social media and stuff.

Benedikt: Yeah. So, yeah.

We'll, we'll, we'll get to that. We'll list all the links and everything, of course, also in the show notes. And, and you will mention it on the, uh, on the episode too. So. Yeah. And I think it's like, you know, You did the right thing. You focused on the skills and the confidence and all of, and the structure and all at first before going out and doing like social media campaigns or like focusing on the business set of things. That's exactly the right order of things, right? There's too many studios out there already. Too many people out there already advertising their studio services while not really knowing what they're doing or not at all in some cases. Like it's really, it's really like that. So I'm, I'm glad that you did it the other way around and now you can focus on bringing more people in and using your connections. And that is also something you did very well. You built real life connections with people, with artists within the music scene that you can now quote unquote use. It's always sounds so bad, but you can now like add value for those people and get value in return from those people and use these connections to build your, your studio business and you can do it confidently because you know what you're doing. And so this is exactly the way, the way to go about it now. Yeah, these are a few, few very cool projects you were working on there. And I think I have to mention something, Clint, you, because this is like huge credits, actually, it's not recording related, but you played drums for like pretty big bands. You play, you played a tour with, uh, Teka, which is one of Germany's biggest like punk rock bands. And you played huge venues on a tour with I think it was Rise Against, right? So so you did that too, which is incredible. So if you're into punk rock, you know who Rise against is and, and maybe even if you're not into punk rock, you might know who they are and you might know atk and you play Drums, forte Disk on that tour. And you've got to know very cool people. You get to know the guys in Anti-Flag and, and you know, a couple of other, um, people, which is, which I think is, is huge. And it's not directly production credits, but it's still. Should tell people that you know what you're doing and that you, you're taking advice from people who are know, who know what they're doing. And I think this is an asset you have and we absolutely have to mention this here because that's something you can be super proud of. Yeah,

Clint: I guess I am. Yeah, the last few months were incredible. Incredible. And in terms of life-changing experiences, that was pretty, pretty sick. Yes. But yeah, I'm very happy and now I'm trying to get my stuff back together, but I'm still back to the drums, learning new songs for another band that I'm playing with now. And, um, it's also taken off, uh, taken up a lot of Headspace and time, of course. So, um, for right now, and Benedict knows this, I'm just focused on, uh, editing my tasks and let Robin do the rest and, um, I'm trying to work on myself in all those other areas as soon as I'm done with the current live projects.



Benedikt: And we'll still go through the, all the mixing action plans and stuff, because you were telling me in the beginning that at some point you want to be a mixer, and that's one of the main things you want to do for people. And so we're, we're gonna get to that at point. There's no way around it. We're gonna get to it. You're right. Keep annoying you until you do, but, uh, as long as you're doing something that is fulfilling to you and that moves your career forward and that gets you in touch with more great artists and make helps you make inspiring music, then it's all, it's all good. And I'm happy to change plans accordingly. That's the beauty of a coaching program versus just the course. Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah, you're welcome. Now, how would you summarize, like in, in a few short sentences maybe, or a few short words, how would you summarize the benefits, uh, of the, the program, the community, the calls, you know, or anything else that comes up, like just for someone on, on the fence of about joining that, like what, how would you summarize that real quickly and, and what, what the main benefits for you?

Clint: Okay. Let me maybe focus on what we've already known by the time we joined. So the self recording band part of it is absolutely amazing. I mean, I've been checking out a lot of other online resources like na, the Mix and Pure Mix, and my own studies in music school. And I have to say the, the amount of knowledge and the density of the knowledge offered at the self recording band is. Incredible. It's like, it's taken me years to get there and I was like, hopefully there's gonna be at least a few things in there that, that I might not have known, which there is, I guess there were a few points I hadn't known, although I did it for the focus and um, the mindset sort of stuff. But I have to say, if you are, if you wanna know more about how to record yourself properly, it's all in there. It's amazing. Benedict has done a huge job putting all that knowledge together and structuring it. And um, then the other main thing for us is to give us the perspective and the optimism and the confidence to, to actually do that. And to actually be here and say, no, we wanna make this happen. And maybe in one or two years, Robin is gonna reduce, no, he's actually probably reducing his job in the near future, but maybe we are both able to work, uh, in the studio, in our own studio in the near future, thanks to Benedict and all his tips. So it's incredible. So huge shout out at this point.

Benedikt: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Love to hear that. I really

Clint: appreciate that. And it's just awesome to have someone that's gone through all those problems and faces and yeah, that's perfect thing to get that advice in, in a way that Benedict is able to offer them. That advice. Yeah. So there's not really a question I've had where he, he's not like, ah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. That's, that's so me like five years ago or whatever. And yeah, it's just

Robin: amazing and it's, it's all so, so personal. Um, if you're looking things up the internet, uh, Clint said there are a lot of like courses, like nail the mix or YouTube tutorials for different stuff. But in this, um, course, um, the coaching, in this coaching program, um, you always have these, uh, one-on-one calls and, um, you can always ask questions right ahead. So you, you got the chance to have feedback right away and in a very personal way. And I think that's a big benefit. Uh, as well.

Benedikt: Yeah. Awesome. Thank, thank you so much. That's so cool to hear. Um, I wanna talk about more more about your though before we wrap this up. So what is it, we haven't talked a lot about like recording philosophy or the, the genres you're working in and like your personal, um, angle and perspective on things. So what is it exactly that you're offering right now and who do you offer it for? Well,

Clint: we're offering for production, um, cuz we're able to record everything properly. Um, although we end up recording drums and vocals mainly because that's, I mean, for those gists among the listeners, they know that. A lot of stuff can be done at home, but still, we, we came to realize that with us next to the gi guitarist or instrumentalist, whatever, um, it might yield better results cuz uh, there's episodes on that in the Self Recording Band podcast regarding tuning and timing and also arrangement of course. So our preferred method is guiding the band through the whole thing and to make sure that. The patterns, the drumming patterns match the drum pattern and to make sure that the whole song is, um, well thought out. And, um, other than that, we like to, uh, offer mixing and, you know, the whole, the whole thing. And our main genre would be heavy music, I guess. But I have to say that we've also been doing singer songwriter music and raggy sort of mu, I mean, not that we put a, a main focus on that, but since we got that complimentary background, um, We might say that anything with guitars, and that's not e d m or hiphop, that we, we might be an option to at least talk to.

Benedikt: So. Cool. Awesome. And, and what's your sort of, um, style or like aesthetic or preference when you, when it comes to working with people? Like how do you approach sessions? What's your aesthetic when sonically and like, who, who are the people that would be a great, a perfect fit for you? And like, who, who should be, um, reaching out to you if, and, and like, yeah. All, all of that. Like in terms of like just your aesthetic, because the, the, I know you have the talent, I know you can do all the things you just mentioned, but what is it exactly that you think, um, makes are you that, that you think you're really good at? And that, and that puts sort of a, um, K enables you to get the best out of, out of an artist and enables you, the, you to help them make the best piece of art. Like how do you approach this all and how do you, what, what's your static there?

Robin: Um, yes, as Clint told, um, we are really going for, uh, looking for a pre-production. So, um, that we need or we ask the bands to give us their demos, um, for the song they wanna work on so that we can decide, or at least suggest some things before even the recording starts.

That. Um, we don't waste a lot of time in recording, uh, experimenting things, which is fine, but, um, to have it, uh, before that is a, a big thing. I don't think many engineers do or offer. Um, For that, uh, kind of kind of prize and, um, yeah, just, uh, I think bands, uh, which want to take them music more seriously, uh, which have a kind of goal for the music, not just, uh, want to say, uh, let's say, um, we want to record our first, um, record. Um, so we are, we are more into bands which already have some records, um, offer, uh, Um, quality which could improve from our experience, um, for further projects. And yeah, I think the pre-production thing is a, is a thing. Uh, we offer like a special,

Benedikt: that's a special offer. Awesome. Yeah, I, I totally agree. And it's, it's worth knowing that, um, you're focusing again on absolutely the right things here. And because you put the music first, you, you work on, you talk about the music, you work on the songs, the arrangements and all of that. And it's not just a cookie cutter service where you like order a mix and then you take whatever they send you and send it back. But you really wanna make sure that it's the best piece of art those people can possibly make. And whatever it takes to get there, you are happy to do with your skillsets that you have. And this, this is really great because it's outcome focused, it's results focused, and it focuses on, on helping the artists be the best version of themselves. And, and it's very personal and more than just this, yeah, this cookie cutter, um, sort of style, uh, of working that a lot of people do these days. So I really love that. It's tedious. It's not easy to do that. It requires a lot of, like, work on your end, a lot of flexibility and a lot of also like creative ability to even, to even do that. And the. That, that's also why it's, it comes in handy that you are great musicians yourselves, of course, otherwise you wouldn't be able to do it. But I think that artists can benefit so much from working with people like you just because of that. And I would highly encourage people to reach out because I know what you can do, what you're capable of, and I know that people are in good hands if they reach out to you. So that's cool. Now, what is your, um, again, the, the, the aesthetic sort of thing? I wanna touch on that real quick. I don't know if you have something like that, but some people are more on like the polished, huge radio sort of style, um, side of the spectrum. Other people are more, um, like the organic, raw, we record everything, live type of guys, you know, and, and everything in between. So what are your personal preferences there, if there are any or like,

Clint: I think it really depends on the artist and their vision.

But if we have to take sides on this, then it's definitely rather the polished sort of production, especially with me being very, uh, Careful with editing and making sure that everything's done right. And Robin tending to go for huge sounding mixes. So, um, it's not like we love records. For example, one of our favorite records is City of Evil by a revenge term for, which is, I mean, they don't use, they, I think they haven't used samples ever as, as far as I'm concerned. It's, it's a very. Raw, uh, aesthetic, which we also really enjoy. But if we have to take sides on this, it's definitely more the modern approach. Mm-hmm.

Benedikt: But, um, it helps that Andy Wallace mixes those records or mix those records, but Yeah. Yeah,

Robin: that's true.

Benedikt: Yeah. Yeah. But it's cool because that's a person who can, who, who nails the balance between, um, huge, polished modern, but also sounding like a band. And I, I know there's very few people who can do it, like Andy Wallace and, and you know, and so, so I get that. That's really cool. Okay. So the more polished side of things, but you still want to hear a band, basically, and if possible, and For sure, for sure. Cool. Great. Now, what would you tell someone who's on the fence about hiring someone like you to help them? Make a cool record because I know for a fact that so many musicians are out there, um, still thinking they don't need help. They think they can do it themselves because the knowledge is out there because they've spent hours on YouTube. And I got that all the time. I talk to so many people who are, who seem to be very confident about what they're doing, but when I listen to their stuff, like it's, it's kind of harsh to say that, but a lot of people are delusional. A lot of people think that their stuff sounds amazing just because they have the tools, um, and they're hesitant to reach out and get professional help or, or they wanna do it themselves. And it's not that they don't appreciate it or whatever, but they, they wanna do it themselves. And it's just never considered hiring someone to do a mix. Like, what would you tell someone like that? Because I think everyone highly bene like definitely benefits from, from doing that. And if it's just, even if it's just for comparison and, and the learning effect, but like, what would you. Tell someone thinking about reaching out, but they're not quite sure if it's worth it.

Clint: I have to say esp, this might sound very weird, but, um, now that we've been working with Benedict and, uh, with a few other professionals in the industry, I personally feel like with my own project, I would wanna work and even do more parts of the process with those people because it's just, it's definitely gonna raise you to the next level. Um, trying to have a look into their brains and to see what your stuff could sound like if. You weren't the only one working on it. And then especially the, um, musical part about it. Like sometimes you can have a pre-production that does sound pretty cool, but the song is probably not that cool. And it really helps to have someone listen to it with fresh ears. And also that's qualified to judge not just like, um, your girl or boyfriend listening to it and be like, ah, something doesn't sound right. That's also super valuable. But to have someone that can tell you what exactly is missing or what should be done differently is super valuable. Valuable. And, um, That's why I would definitely, especially the mix, cuz that's, I'm, I'm guilty of that, you know, I can track and, um, judge the musical part of things and I can edit and everything. But I know for a fact if I hand my stuff to Robin, it's gonna be way better in most of the cases. And, um, you shouldn't be, I mean, obviously there's a monetary side to that, but it's definitely worth it. And if you want to take a project to the next level, um, you might want to consider. Looking for someone that could help you.

Benedikt: Yeah, and and also the budget side of things. And I mean, I keep saying that all the time people are spending so much money on things that are much more stupid than their music, I think, and they don't even realize. So it's all a matter of priorities. Of course, not everybody has like 20 K to produce a full-on professional record or whatever, but maybe you can afford to have one song mixed for a few hundred bucks. You know, maybe you can do that as a band, because I'm sure you've spent more money on, as I said, other things that are way more stupid than that. And uh, and if your music is really as important as you say it is, then I think you should, at least you should, you should do yourself a favor and at least try that once because there is a return. There. It's not for nothing. It's not a, just a cost that is an investment in yourself and in your band. And you will get new opportunities, better shows, um, you know, you're gonna a good recording and a good mix and a, a good piece of art that you put out there in the world has value and, and can potentially change people's lives. You know, people you might, you never know who might listen to your music and, and his, their lives could be changed by that. So it, there is a value, there is a return. It's absolutely worth it. And so, I, I wholeheartedly, um, agree with you there. So anything you wanna add to that, Robin?

Robin: Um, yes. As Clint, uh, told the, to have at least someone have another point of view for, for the project as we, for ourselves do with, uh, you Benedict mixing our stuff because, um, bands or people tend to. To hear things, um, the way they always, uh, how to, how to say it. Um, they've got this one view on their projects. Yeah. And, um, yeah, maybe sometimes it's a, it's a good, um, it's a good way to have someone else rethinking the whole thing to, to have this kind of, I don't know if it's a thing like tunnel vision. Yeah. To, um, cancel that. And another thing, um, we've, I mean, we know. Um, a lot of, um, musicians and, and bands and, and platforms. So, um, if you, um, are working with us, uh, we are also not only posting your stuff, reposting your projects, um, we, we could try to, um, yeah, to give other people in the music industry or to show other people your music. Maybe it's, it's about finding new gigs or, Hey, do you know, which kind of, um, of, uh, guys do good, uh, covers for, for your, for your booklets, booklet covers. So, um, I think you really benefit from, um, knowing or working with, uh, someone who's in this, this business and knows a lot of people, um, yeah. That can reach for, for

Benedikt: very good point. Yeah, very good point. I haven't even thought about that. Your connections in the music industry are valuable at like, as crazy and, and it's like you can't ever promise anything there. So I would be very careful to promise anyone, like anything beyond the result that you can personally provide. But if they're good and if, if they're decent human beings, because that's also a requirement for any sort of referral. Like you, you wouldn't refer or show someone to someone else if they're not, um, cool to work with. But if you are, if your music is great and you are decent human beings, then there's a chance that Clinton, Robin will show your work to people, to other people in the industry. And you never know what can come from that, or they can put you in touch with their people in their network for, as you said, videos, artwork, um, booking, whatever, whatever. So I think that's actually a very, very good asset that you have with your connections in this, in this industry. And so, yeah. Good, good point. Haven't even thought about it yet. Um, awesome. So yeah. Uh, and, and I have to say, uh, I love working with you on your record too, and I think it's very cool that you, even if you could, even despite the fact that you could do it yourselves, you are collaborating with others to do it. And I wanna say that this is very common, so I collaborate with other artists, like with other engineers, mastering engineers, for example, all the time, or I still to, to this day, even though I am full-time for like a decade plus, and I feel pretty confident or very confident about my work, I am constantly in coaching programs myself, myself, constantly buying courses, constantly educating myself. I'm in various masterminds. I love to get input from other people. The learning never stops and the collaboration never stops. And just because you could do it or all, uh, on your own doesn't mean you should because, uh, there's. Always, I think you always benefit from collaborating with others and not doing things in the vacuum, so it's really cool that you do that. Now, finally, how can all those people that were, would be a great fit for you? Like band, let's just sum it up, like rock bands. Anyone who's making like handmade sort of acoustic instruments, music in a way, or like heavier bands. How can those people willing and ready to invest in themselves and, and and excited about a collaboration like that? How can they find you, contact you and work with you?

Clint: Yeah, so you can find us on Instagram, which is Ruby underscore records Ruby, that's r o o b e y. And we've also linked our personal profiles there where you can just check us out and then our website is gonna be Ruby. Dash records.com. And like I said earlier, that should be online as of later this week. And um, yeah, we'll be posting all the stuff we're doing on there and, um, we'll be happy to hear from you if you're interested.

Benedikt: Awesome. Really great. We'll put all of those links in the show notes, by the way. That's good. So if you go to the sound recording band.com/podcast and then just go to, I don't know the episode number yet, but if you go to that episode here, uh, you click on that in the podcast archive, you'll find all those links. Also, if you're watching on YouTube by the way, or if you are, uh, in your podcast app, just open up the show notes or the YouTube description and you'll find the links to, to, uh, Ruby Records and Clinton, um, Robin's personal pages, like personal social pages. And then you can just reach out any preferred outreach me method. Are you happy with just chatting with people, um, through socials or is there contact form or one specific way people should

Clint: reach out? No, we don't, we don't mind any that works for us. Awesome. Very cool. Yeah. Perfect.

Benedikt: All right. Anything you wanna add to this? Like, I'm, I'm super stoked. This was a great, great, um, conversation for me personally because it, like, yeah, it's just exciting to, to see the, the progress you've made and the, the things you've working on and, and the, the insights you've provided. I think it's very inspirational for people too. Anything you want to add personally to this?

Clint: I, I hope you've, you've been able to gain something from our background and our struggles. And the main thing for me that I would want you to take away is that even if you feel like you're struggling or you don't know where to start, um, it's normal and you just need to find someone like Benedict to help you guide your and make your way and just try to get that. in your head, and then you should be fine and never be afraid to take on help. And, um, there are, even though there are a few people in this world that produce records on which they play every instrument, sing, write the songs, mix and master them, and market them on TikTok, uh, that doesn't mean that you have to be that person. And, um, it's totally fine to be good at some stuff and make sure that they are as awesome as possible. And the most important thing is to put. Your stuff out and not be working on them for ages. So, uh,

Benedikt: yeah, so true. Thank you for that. Yeah. It's like, um, the confidence, having a goal in mind, being focused, um, following a process and trusting that process and just keep continually, like, keep putting in the work and being patient. If you do those things, there will be a result, promise, there's no way around that. You can, you almost can't mess it up. If you do that, if you know where you want to go, you put in the work, you're patient, you follow and trust the process and um, and you're focused, then it will take you. It will take you where you wanna go eventually. And, and thank you for saying that. Not, uh, Clint. It's so, so important that people end this comparison game. And this is true for all kinds, for all different areas of life, but in, in music production as well. Just stop the comparison game. Don't compare yourself to the people on, on social media because A, you don't know if their lives are really like that. You don't know what it looks like behind the scenes. Um, and, and B, you don't have to be in the top 2%. It's very cool to be in the top 20%. And you probably, if you're making music right now and you have songs on Spotify and you are, you know, and you stoked about that and you have a hobby that you love and it's fulfilling, then you already are pretty, in a pretty good spot actually. And you pr are, are probably already ahead of most people. You just don't see those people post about it on social media. So I think it's really, really good that you set that and, and, um, and yeah, uh, it's normal. The struggle is real. Everybody has it. And, uh, Thank you for that, Clint. It's cool. So, uh, thank you again for coming on to this podcast. Now, if you listening to this and you wanna work on the confidence and skill part of this and the process side of things, and you wanna, you wanna check out the, the stuff that Clinton Robin were mentioning here, then you can go to the surf recording band.com/call. And I'm happy to do this first free call with you and, uh, all of the things that we've been talking about. Um, I'm there to guide you through this. So again, this starts recording ban.com/call. And once again, check out the show notes to go to Clint and Robins studio website. Very important. Do it. Reach out. They're cool.

Clint: All right. Thanks so much. Thank guys for having us and, um, keep producing, keep making music, and yes, keep enjoying music and keep enjoying

Robin: doing music. That's the most important thing. I, yeah.

Benedikt: Great. Absolutely. Cool, Dan. Thank you guys. Have a nice day. And uh, bye-bye. Talk to you soon.

Robin: Bye. All right. Thanks a

Benedikt: lot. Bye.

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