TSRB Podcast 48

[00:00:00] John McLucas: [00:00:00] No matter what your message is. There's a way to tell it on social media, um, that that is authentic to you. And I think that's what I really want to drive from here. Even if it's putting things in holes of people, this is 

Benedikt: [00:00:16] the self recording band podcast, the show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are, DIY stuff.

John McLucas: [00:00:25] Let's go.

Benedikt: [00:00:28] Hello and welcome. The self recording band podcast. I am your host Benedict tine, and I'm here with my friend and cohost Malcolm. Oh, and flood. Hello, as well as Mr. Chan, Mike Lucas. Hello, Sean. 

John McLucas: [00:00:39] How are you? I am so like, I, I, I, when I told you guys I was awake earlier, I am not kidding. I am so like, my brain is tingling, not in a dangerous way.

And I'm just so excited to be here. That's that's yeah. That's how I'm feeling right now. 

Benedikt: [00:00:54] Fantastic. Fantastic. That's so good to hear. How are you, Michael? We've done yesterday, but 

Malcom: [00:00:59] yep. [00:01:00] Still good things are good. I, uh, I actually started working again last week. I took like a. I extended week and a bit off and then couldn't handle it anymore.

So, but it felt nice. It was great. Getting back to the studio. I did some studio tweaks and moved my monitors a little bit and I'm very pleased. So I'm excited as well. I'm like, okay, bring on a year of mixing. Let's do it. Awesome. Awesome. Good 

Benedikt: [00:01:21] to hear. So our guest today, John. Is an expert in, let's say let's, let's call it content creation and social media, at least that's my, I mean, he can explain it better than I can, but, um, what he does really well is make authentic content on social media that connects, that resonates with people.

And John was kind enough to do, um, a webinar, a guest webinar, or a bonus module, if you will, for our self recording band Academy that we're about to launch. And, um, we. Invited him on the show on the podcast. So we can get some of that information out to you as well, because it's very helpful, very valuable.

And it's something we don't talk about very often on [00:02:00] this podcast, we talk about all the technical stuff about the music stuff, like all that, but. We rarely talk about, um, getting the word out about how to present yourself on social, how to make stuff that actually connects. And people ask me stuff like that all the time.

Like, should I do is studio diary while we're, while I record, what should we film? How, how should we, how should we do it? How should it come across? Should we even think about it at all? Do we overthink it, all that stuff. So it's relevant for people and John knows how to do it. He knows a thing about a thing or two about this stuff.

So. Thank you, John for taking the time. Thank you for doing this. And I'd love to hear. What, what you've been up to lately for? It's like a little, a little self-introduction of about what you do currently and what, what has been changed maybe since the last time we've been talking, because it's almost, it's been almost a year.

John McLucas: [00:02:48] Yeah. Uh, first off, thank you for that introduction. Um, hi everybody. My name's John McLucas. I primarily work in the pop music genre as a producer, and I've also. Been kind of [00:03:00] Appling like T a Steve jobs and myself a bit by also working both in production and also working with artists to want to produce their own pop music.

So kind of making the iPod touch and then making the iPhone kind of a deal. Um, but it's been, it's, it's been amazing and, uh, really enjoying that process of, of working with people and the creative capacity like that. So my background is mostly. In that like, it's so great being on this show because we're so polo we're so in the same umbrella, but couldn't be further edge is from the umbrella, um, w with how we operate day to day.

But I think what unites us is the fact that we still need to connect to people, and we still need to have some way that people are aware of us and want to work with us and want to, uh, give us an opportunity or present us with an opportunity. And that's where content is kind of the universal glue that despite w if you're a thrash band that.

You know, thinks they're too cool for anything with melody versus, you know, the, the, uh, dad rock, [00:04:00] bring me the horizon, new stuff, like, or a surf rock band, or even a, you know, five seconds of summer band kind of a thing. Like the content matters. It will always matter. And that to me is the beautiful, it's like the beautiful equalizer of everything is, is no matter what you think of yourself, you're going to have to, uh, Get in front of people and talk to people and connect to people in some way.

And that is exactly why I just love this world so much. Is, is it opens up so much opportunity like it has for myself in many ways. 

Benedikt: [00:04:30] Awesome. Yeah. It opened a lot of doors for you, for sure. And that's kind of the opening question from me here is, and that's, I think that the question that most people have when they watch people like you do it, how do you actually get to do your work and the creative work and the work you do for clients and like making music and all that.

While also being active on social, creating content, posting all that. Um, it seems like a pretty daunting task and it seems like, like many people are scared [00:05:00] to, to jump into that because they are afraid that all they do, all they're going to do all day is create content and be on social. And they're not going to make music anymore.

And. I get it that you need to be organized of course, but the way you do it and the amount of content you put out seems almost impossible to immune mortal to most bands because you're like posting once a day, even a simple post is a really, it's really a challenge for many people. And so I wonder, and many people wonder how do you do it?

How do you manage to stay focused and still make music, but also do all the content and the social media stuff. 

John McLucas: [00:05:34] Uh, okay. This is, uh, this is a beefy answer, so, but, but I think we're here for the beef. Yeah. Th that's that this is not a vegan friendly episodes. We're here for the beef. That's the only meat-based Punchbowl I'll be making today, probably.

Um, but so to actually answer your question, I just thought of the we're here for the beef and that's a really good tagline for somethings. So, um, the kind of the umbrella [00:06:00] answer is. A thing that I've been huge with. And I, and I'm sure I've probably heard 10 to 15 episodes of the self recording band. So I don't know if you guys have talked about this in depth.

How have you guys gotten into parades principal law of diminishing returns? Parkinson's law. Only in passing only in passing. Okay. Um, I'll give just a quick overview then. So the, my kind of, uh, we'll break it into like three phases. The first phase is understanding these principles of efficiency and time allotment, which I think are.

Has just been so important for me to internalize not only to internalize them, but to actually like give it a shot. Cause I think people hear it. Yeah. And they go, Oh, well, okay, cool. Well you're different. I, my art needs to be done, you know, like this, or I need to do a video, like yes. And it's like, I really like to smack people over the head and just say like, just please try to put this into practice once and see how it impacts your life.

Um, cause I had that happened with one of my clients, um, who, Oh, you guys know Ryan flair [00:07:00] and um, And he, and he's like, I've never written more music and less time and in a week. And she's like, he wrote eight minutes of music in one week. And then in the last year he wrote one song and it's like, okay, cool.

So that's exactly why this is important. And, um, the, the first one of these is the 80 20 principle, which we all know at predo principle. Uh, it's a very simple premise and it ties into another. Fancy pants phrase called the law of diminishing returns, where essentially the first 20% of effort, you get a tremendous amount of return and the next 80% of effort, you get way less return for your time and energy.

And I think we can all attest to that. So if I tie this back to bands, it's in the sense of when you sit down and you write a riff, that's great. And you start writing. The song or doubling it out, uh, the first hour is like magic. It's you don't understand time. You're floating. You feel like you're on drugs, but you're not, you're just, you're just going through the ether.

Um, and then hours [00:08:00] fo you know, three to seven are awful and you realize you were just playing with snare libraries and, you know, and you wrote, and you're like, what did I just do with my day? Uh, and that's, that's an experience that we've all had, and that is literally the 80 20 principle, you know, the first 20% being that magic ether time, and then the eight next 80% of your time being pretty much nothing happening or very little happening in effect.

So. How that translates for myself and how I approach, like literally everything I do is I understand that when I make a video, like there's so many. So for example, there's so many videos. I hate the color grade. I hate actually, I don't like how they look, but I understand at the end of the day, what matters is the, the consistency, the message.

And what's in the video and I'm not going to sit here and spend 30 minutes on a. Video, I edited for 30 minutes. I'm not gonna spend an additional 30 on tweaking, the amount of green to get it. Perfect. I need to get the video out and I have more important things to do with those 30 minutes of time. So I know that.

[00:09:00] If I, instead of spending eight hours on one task, like let's say, yeah, make, um, Instagram posts. If I instead using 80 to the 80 20 principle, if I spent 90 minutes to two hours on four things, and I was able to put myself in that space of inspiration and that space of freshness more often, I'm able to get so much further in so much done across the board.

Um, and the last then kind of the last. Caveat of this is to lastly say that, um, I'm not going to say that it makes everything perfect, but when you get 80 per, when you get to a B minus on four things, instead of an, a minus on one thing, you can come back the next day and then get the everything up to an, a plus in those next two hours of time, instead of just grinding away to death on one thing that has to be perfect.

Um, And that's, that's what I've found to be the case every single time. So my whole point of this very beef rant was to also come back and say like, I would challenge you to spend [00:10:00] 20% of the time on a task that you, then what you think it will take and limit yourself to it and move on and try doing that for three days.

And allow yourself the space to just make as much progress as you can. And then you have to move on when your phone timer goes off. Um, and that to me has been probably 2020 is like biggest revelation is the fact that like, I have to be relentless with my time and how. Long, I will allow myself to spend on a task, um, before moving on.

So I can take advantage of that little effort in high yield, return out as much as I can in my day. 

Benedikt: [00:10:37] Awesome. Yeah. That's that makes total sense. And everyone like for us, like running businesses and being producers and stuff, like that's, that's something that we all at least have heard of. I think for creatives, for musicians, especially hobby musicians, this might be completely.

News things, you know, like time is not as, as important too, as they think it's not as important or as valuable when it's just them [00:11:00] doing their hobby, doing their thing, making music, but it can quickly become very valuable and important when you actually want to achieve something or when you want to not get frustrated and not like spend months and years on that one project that, that actually never gets finished.

So it's. It's worth thinking about this stuff, even if you're just, just quote unquote hobby musician, because you still want to get things done. You still want to make songs and like, you still want to have that. I don't know that satisfaction that comes with putting something out, finishing something, even if it's just for yourself.

So totally agreed. But what does that mean then in the context of making content as a band, for example, does that mean focus on what you're actually doing now? And that is in this case, for example, recording a record. And then spend as little time as possible on those, on those posts. So just make sure to post something, or is there still a minimum amount of like a standard or a minimum amount of quality and thought that you need to put into it to be, even for it to be, even worth it 

[00:12:00] John McLucas: [00:11:59] changing the heater setting right here for me to, to stay warm while I know I'm balancing it out as the sun rise, uh, over here.

So, uh, to answer your, to answer your question, the. Biggest thing that I've found with, with creative umbrella and with people in bands, um, artists, people who I think, yeah, we, we kind of are, our understanding are innately, not sad, like thinking about business. They're always, they're very much in the creative head space instead of the business head space.

My favorite thing, and what I've seen work best for them is whenever they get out of their head and just. Execute at the lowest level, if they can hit the publish button when they aren't, if they aren't doing anything, my first thing is you need to, you need to post something. So I always try to say what I'm about to say with the context of like, don't like, this should take five minutes.

Th you know, the, this documenting process, like in I'm going to I'll walk through a handful of examples. It should take no more than five minutes to post from like, Oh, we need to [00:13:00] content to con me did a content, should be about five minutes. Um, And, and the reason is the fact that the, the amount of pontification when it comes to making content is so, uh, exhausting and it takes up so much time.

So when people want to know how to apply this in balance, it it's like, let's start with the easiest thing that you can do, you know, uh, w which is just documenting your day. And what that, what that really looks like on a, on a deeper level is, you know, bands. Okay. What what's a band doing in a day. They're probably, um, Working on a song.

They're not nobody's in a studio. You know, very few people are in a studio in 2020, but, um, they're working on writing, they're working on a recording of your final recordings or they made the recording on their own. So they're doing the full recording process. They're making album art, they're figuring out things with playlist, like all of that, even the unsexy stuff is an opportunity to make a social media post because I think what a lot of people think of when they think.

I have to do a [00:14:00] content is like they look at, um, who's a big O who's like a big Q super. Okay. Bring me the horizon. That's like my only example. I'm sorry. That's so narrow. Um, but like, they'll look at it, bring me the horizons feed and be like, I can't do that. You know, they have all these cinematic, Lutz, Pat cinematic, Lutz processings on it, and everything's beautiful.

Um, But, but they're comparing themselves to the wrong things, in my opinion. So I'll always just ask them and be like, Hey, whatever you're doing in your day, my most authentic, like. Kind of quote, shitty looking posts, um, are usually the ones that connect the best with people. Because when I just take a picture of, I took a picture of my, my beat looking face at two in the morning.

Cause I go to sleep at like 10 I'm a grandpa. Um, and I'll just take a picture of how disheveled I looked and talked about how disheveled I was. Yeah. But I'm so happy because of what I got done. And I met an important deadline and like that got more interaction and likes and a lot of the stuff I try to make look good.

Um, so my challenge to [00:15:00] people when trying to figure out this balance is to start with giving yourself 10 minutes a day. And I just need you to, at one point in your day to document what you're doing that day, if your day to day is less, and I tell people all the time, and this is the easiest thing to do.

If you're listening to this podcast right now, Don't do this if you're driving, but if you're not driving, take a screenshot of the podcast on your phone, screenshot it, then go to Instagram stories, tag  recording band on Instagram and your story. And then at John underscore, McLucas throw in the plug. Boom.

But, um, but seriously, once you can do for your day's content is take a screenshot of you listening to a podcast about content and say, wow, this has been, you know, I'm so excited to. Take content creation in a way that I know I can get done, right? This is my 10 minutes a day documenting at John McLucas.

Haha. I finally did it. You know, I did it now. You can't, you know, now you can't harass me for not making content, whatever that is, but that's literally, or you could, you could take a screenshot of this and post a story about, Hey, I used to [00:16:00] be just home, like and talk about your feeling like honestly, uh, content creation is still intimidating to me, but hearing that I can do it in a simple way where I just show what's happening in my day.

It means so much to me. And that's, that's a post because that, that is still what's going on in your day. And that applies to obviously writing a riff, take out your phone. 10 seconds of the riff, um, a cool drum beat. Uh, you might get up and you're really stoked on how that amp, uh, the, the recording sounds.

Holy crap. First time I crushed it on an recording, a live amp. Yeah. That's it post it, like don't, don't worry about like, take your underwear off your desk and that's it. You know, don't have trash take trash out of your photos. That's the only thing you need to ask. If you have a creative space that isn't perfect.

Mine's not perfect at all. Um, I mean, I'll just take this, this protein bar wrapper out of it. So when Pete, when people are like, what do I post? It's just, it's just, what is the main thing you're doing today that you could tell a story about or talk about how you're [00:17:00] feeling like I've made this post just finished up like, like this, like I'm just finished up my therapy session, uh, feeling so like.

Just really excited to be breaking negative thought traps. Right. And that's going to help me move forward. 

Malcom: [00:17:13] Honestly, my Facebook or my Instagram has been growing like crazy since I got a cat, I just post cat photos. That's what people want. There we go. 

John McLucas: [00:17:22] Yeah. And it can come down to just a real, just the simplest things.

Restringing your guitar is a post, um, learn like learning as opposed to. That does I tell you all the time you're learning something today, you know, why don't you talk about what you learned or why it's important or how it's going to change, how you work with your band. And it's just a conversation that happens to be typed into a phone to me when we're documenting our day, like food, or just made this tone, you know, like that's, if that's how you talk, make that piece of content and then you're done, you post it.

And then just, just, all right, cool. I did something today. And now I can move on. You're getting in the habit of publishing and after [00:18:00] 30 videos, you'll be able to figure out how to maybe angle it better, but we can't do that without you actually hitting publish. So that's why, like my first thing is always about, can you actually hit, publish and show me what's going on in your day?

And then we can talk about refining it because the act of hitting publish, even with the people in your natural network of. Followers friends. Um, that's going to still have a huge impact on how you're perceived and how people remember you as a creator and as a, as an artist, as a creative. Awesome. 

Benedikt: [00:18:29] Thank you so much.

Um, that's still what, the only thing I still wonder is, or that, that I still need to ask is how can that be. Helpful for our audience, because I see that it's can be helpful for other bands or, um, if I'm doing that as like a professional and something, then I can see that, um, it's kind of teaching stuff.

It's helping people achieve stuff, you know, but if you're a band and you're the people you want to reach, are your listeners or your potential fans, how is like [00:19:00] documenting, documenting your day as a band? Helping them in any way or is it just, or maybe it is helping them and it just make making it creating a deeper connection.

But what are your thoughts on that? Is isn't that just boring? Like do music fans want to watch every, everything their bands do, even if it's not music 

John McLucas: [00:19:16] related, that's a good, that's a really good point. And the answer is, I mean, there's, there's a good, and I think there's a refinement process to it. Um, When we talk about connecting with people who would enjoy their music, that's when, to me the FA the story factor of writing comes into play.

So for example, um, the first step is to be able to just post a video of your guitar tone. You know, let's say for example, right. You've made a guitar thing. Cool. Um, which is great. And I'll discuss peripheral benefits of that in a second, but. The next level beyond that once you can actually hit publish a few times is to then say, okay, well now I want to tell us, like, what's a story I can tell about why this was an important moment.

[00:20:00] So that is the point where it becomes a lot more connected with people. Um, and this is all I'm not gonna, like, this is a harder part. I work with people like very intimately to work with them, to help tell stories. It's not an easy thing, but if you want some references, just read my Instagram captions for people in the podcast, because we can't go through with them all.

But, um, What we want is what we can do with something documenting our day is we can talk about why this moment is a triumph for why it was a struggle or what, um, physical, for example, right? If you even took the screenshot of the podcast example, um, when I released music, I I'm so frightened that it won't make an impact on you guys.

So I haven't put out as much. Which is that's probably every single person right now is probably like, yeah, like, like softly nodding to themselves, like phone crap. He hit it. Cause that's the fear. It's a fear around like, not being enough, you know? Uh self-worth what are the things that you're like grandma instilled in you when you were seven about why you're not important, unless you meet X, Y, Z requirement, you know, like all those things factor into why [00:21:00] they may not be.

Feeling confident, but you take a screenshot about learning content and you talk about like, you could share a story from your life. Yeah. My, um, doing this path, I know that my grandma is probably unhappy with me every time I see her. She's the one who's telling me right now. Um, why don't I, uh, why did I drop out of the accounting program?

Whatever your story is. Um, But honestly, hearing episodes like this and knowing that I can get started with something so simple is the strength. I need to know that I can bring you something, bring you art, bring you my voice and be proud that I'm doing so like that, that that's there. That's your truth.

And that's what will connect with people, right? So after you can hit publish. It's like now, now tell me a story related to that. And like, again, right. We took something that's a podcast. So if we're going to be on podcasts about content that connects and we, and we told a story about why this is something important to you.

Um, totally. Yeah. And that's the [00:22:00] humanity, that's the conversation of it, of social media. That takes a little more time. Cause it's like awkward to be, to type like you talk. Um, but it's that to me is like, wow, like no, no people don't really talk like that online. Um, or be. Real, whatever we want to say. So that's, that's how I'd say we would tie it back to not just being look at my tone, bro.

And then it's a bunch of guys in a forum. It's it's telling that story in a deeper way. Um, and kinda zooming out from just that, that snapshot right there in what it means to them. Yes. So 

Malcom: [00:22:34] maybe we could talk about what the, why we're doing this, like what the goal is. And to me, the, the like two buzzwords that come up would be audience.

And then community. Um, and, and I think both would probably be valid reasons, but I wonder John, what you kind of like what those words mean to you and what you're you yourself tend to focus on and, uh, And or if those words are even a different, [00:23:00] are they different to you? Cause I think, uh, more, more commonly today and in the modern marketer, people are starting to focus on communities like, like bands or launching Patriots and stuff where they have like a really one-to-one direct relationship with their fans, where an audience is maybe a one step removed from that.

And then I would say maybe below that there's fans, which are just people that you can't contact at all and they check you out on Spotify or whatever. Um, And, and I wonder how, how do you like to target your social media content? Um, I shouldn't even say social media content, just content in general. Cause you do so much.

Um, are you trying to actively build an audience or a 

John McLucas: [00:23:41] community? That's interesting cause I haven't, I haven't, that's a great distinction. The way that you just phrase that, um, audience versus community in the way that. They're a bit different. I've actually, I've personally never actually interpreted it that way, but I see what you mean.

The difference being a community, being more of a tight-knit like [00:24:00] I know Jimmy, Jimmy knows me. We've we talk that kind of like that community, um, like us community. I mean, we've, we've all talked quite a bit, so I think it's deeper than that, but uh, very much more intimate. Whereas audiences is kind of a bit more broad and peripheral, like the, the donut, whereas the community is the space inside the donut.

Um, That's the second food analogy I brought to the table. So I love it. You got it. We got at least one more in the bag. What, what? This 

Benedikt: [00:24:27] is like, you, you, you talk about beef and food. Diego yesterday was talking about pants all the time. I don't know what that was. 

John McLucas: [00:24:34] It's just, we always return to our homeostasis basis.

And for me, it's thinking about food and for him it must be pants. I don't know how that's necessarily is like his home base, but Hey, whatever, if you like 

Benedikt: [00:24:46] pants, He was talking, he was talking about hidden pay, hitting pans, hitting iron pans. So I don't know. Anyway,

Malcom: [00:24:56] check it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

John McLucas: [00:24:57] Yeah. Now I'm curious if yeah. Okay. [00:25:00] I, I'm very interested to hear what that is all about. Okay. Oh my goodness. Uh, well I've, that must have been a good conversation. It was the, I think like the big picture. I always like to think big and then get a little more detailed because I think the, the thesis is important with all of this is for me, the word I wrote down is, is talking about opportunity that it opens up and way.

And the reason I think about that word is I don't think when I'm making a piece of content, like my head isn't necessarily at the point where I'm like, this is going to target like the community or the, you know, the audience. I won't necessarily think that specific off the bat, but I do, uh, Well, I guess I can tell an anecdote.

That's why we're here. So, um, I was like, Oh, should I go into an anecdote? And like, Oh, this is a podcast. This is literally the medium of content where you can tell anecdotes. And that's the point? So, I mean, YouTube [00:26:00] brain, cause I, yeah, very different. But the craziest, this is the craziest thing. And I'll get back to your question about them.

The craziest part about content is I can safely say that I can still not tell who is watching, like who is paying attention to what I'm doing, which is one of the most annoying things about content. But it's also one of the most amazing things about content, because over the last two years, probably the biggest opportunities, if you want to call them that the biggest moments I've had in.

My content career have all come from things where I didn't even think that person was paying attention. And then I just get a message one day and they, Oh, I love blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, uh, okay. Um, cool. You know, so for example, I got hit up to, um, to be in the running to produce this, this, uh, this trio we're work with this trio who has a.

Quite a bit of momentum [00:27:00] in their career. So as a producer, this is like a two notches up like a very high level act for me, uh, to produce. And I've never heard of this person, but they said they love my work. They've been following me for a long time. I like, who are you? I don't, I'm not, not in a mean way, but I'm just like, I don't even know you.

And you say that you love what I do and you want to Excel and this opportunity and put my name in the towel on the table for this. Um, and that's wild to me. And the other, and then the other another time that was really powerful. And like, this is when it really sunk in is when I spoke at the summit, the first time Finn McEntee in his, he actually put this in his presentation, um, about getting hired and getting opportunities.

As he talked about bringing, having me do a, uh, a segment. And he said, yeah, the first guy that I thought of was John. And not because, you know, he's like any cooler or anything, but when I thought of a guy who is doing X doing Y the first name I thought of was John. Um, and [00:28:00] it's funny because in my head I am, so I'm a technician in many ways, but like, I don't know, I don't even, this is going to really be painful to hear.

I don't even know what an impulse response is or how to load one. I, I don't even know I was talking, I don't even know, like the difference. Between, like I get dynamic IQ and multi-band compression has a difference, but I don't technically fully understand why I wouldn't go for one or the other, like there's technical things that I don't know.

But when I'm on the map with content and people understand that I'm out there on board, I'm, I'm creating, um, TA I'm having conversations with people. It opens up an Avenue for them to, um, For them to see into my world and what I'm actively doing, that puts me in a category for opportunity that I wouldn't be without it.

So regardless of opportunity, regardless of audience or community, which is tied into the umbrella of opportunity, there's so much that happens when. You were at least partially visible because [00:29:00] if you aren't, the, the cost of not being visible is so tremendous because none of that is possible. No, nobody answer community, no opportunity.

I mean, you might write if you have a good organic, uh, in-person network mazeltov, but there's a point where you can't keep up with all of them at the same time. Like it's impossible. That's what social media is. You can maintain relationships with hundreds of people. Thousands of people connect with thousands of people with 10 to 15 minutes of your day at a time.

Right. And that is the opportunity that's on the table. And when people don't understand the gravity of that, or the opportunities that come up, you can't even predict, like you can't predict the things that will happen. If you took content creation seriously for 12 months. Yeah, you cannot predict it. And that's the hard part.

Cause I want to shake people and I want to be like, I'm on the other side, I can't keep up with like all the things that, that are coming my way because of content that I've been doing. Um, like, like do it please. Um, but it's intangible because I can't tell them, you will receive this many fans, like, you know, or [00:30:00] anything like that.

I can't tell them that. Um, because I don't know how, what the opportunities are that come on the table. So that to me is the big picture of it. Um, and. Beyond that I think now to answer your question about audience in, in community here, um, To me, the, the part, the hardest part actually ties back to the story because when people usually write their captions, it's very like, look how nice this maybe weird analogy, look at it.

Look how nice my body is. Look at my bud. Just look at me. Yeah. Yeah. It's like very me-focused where, right. If we tell a story about my grandma's descent towards my career, um, I mean, it's me focused, but it's a story. That's not like. Big things coming. Great photo shoot with at photographer. Uh, you love the vibe.

I was like, that's not a post that like is going to connect with somebody or want, have somebody wants to be a part of your community. But I think every time I see an artist, that's like, yeah, I work a day job. And I live with my parents, but I'm [00:31:00] grinding and I'm working to do stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And this is my journey. I'm like, Oh, that's so cool. Instead of like, trying to be like the coolest kid on the block energy. So to me, The audience and community that I've built is just all about a, an uncomfortable amount of honesty for the sake of. Just knowing that that's what forms a connection and a friendship like forming a connection and friendship for Cardi B is different than how we form them because she can post a Versace.

Is that a clue that's clothing, right? Yeah. So she can just pose in a Versace dress tag Versace, and then say drip, drip. And she gets, uh, you know, 20 million likes that's, that's her whole caption because she's Cardi B. Um, and I think people get. This misconception that they should be doing the same thing.

Like the sun rises when the darkest nights, you know, like, like whatever dumb doesn't quote. Oh yeah. [00:32:00] He said, yeah, that was way better in the, in the, in the trilogy. So sorry that man. Yeah. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Um, but it doesn't like, like. It only works when you're at a certain level and your brand is for like, yeah, like it, it, it's just not the same, but when you can forward, you have an opportunity more than ever to form these real connections with people through organic storytelling, through showing the reality of your day.

When I saw an artist sitting on her living room floor with her dad, um, doing a little duet where like, she taught him how to like. Like, like play the kick drum pad, you know? And then she did the rest. That was like the coolest. And I'm like, wow, I love this artist. Uh, like I can't get enough of just when somebody is just real.

It's like, yeah, I live at home with my parents, but my, at least my dad can take over the kick drum like that, you know, something, uh, something off the cuff like that. And it was just, that's the stuff to me that made me pay attention in the world of like the [00:33:00] 3000 artists we see a year when somebody was real and it just showed a story and it was.

Not trying to be the cool kid, which is the opposite of what I think a lot of people go for here in this space. That was a really long answer, but hopefully that covered it. I really appreciate 

Benedikt: [00:33:15] it. That's great. That's actually why I was asking, um, about, um, yeah. How to like, w if that is relevant, if the documenting of your days would be relevant or helpful, because I think.

If you do it that way that you just described and you, you tell a story that's connected to the documenting, and if you make it personal, that it's absolutely helpful. It could be entertaining or it could be inspiring, whatever, but it is, it is helpful and interesting for the people that are watching it.

But if you're documenting your day and you're just talking about like, as it just said, what you do now and that you think it's pretty cool, but you're doing right now, then that is not. That's also documented, but that's not the same thing. That's not telling a story. That's not helping anyone. So, and I see [00:34:00] that like probably 90% of full bands that I know, especially smaller ones do it exactly that way.

They post a new video out. Then they post 10 times. Have you watched our new video? Have you listened to our new single? Have you done this? Have you done that though? So it's one promotion after the other. And even if they post other stuff than promotions, then it's like, Um, back in the rehearsal room. And then, uh, now we're in the studio and today we recorded this, but it's, it's just that full stop and no like deeper stuff.

No, no funny stuff, no personal stuff. No reason why. Yeah, exactly. And that's not, that's not connecting with anyone I guess, because that's just show showing. Showing off what you do, but without any, any sort of context or any deeper message or anything that could connect with with people. So that's why I was asking about the documenting, if you could make that relevant and helpful for people actually.

John McLucas: [00:34:52] Yeah. It's, it's uncomfortable. And if I had to give a piece of advice for somebody who's listening, when you try to tell a [00:35:00] story is my biggest thing is like, Just try saying it out loud or try typing as much as you can, how you speak and then read it to yourself. Like, would you literally speak like that?

Because I think a lot of times they try to write a caption with, with a lot of words and then it comes off like, uh, you know, like, like Facebook's making an announcement about their privacy policy. It's like, no, it's supposed to sound like a human talking to a human. So once you write it, just read it out loud and like, does this sound like me?

You know, that's why I have like ye and like chocolate jokes and like, get it clapping. Like that's why that's in my post. That's how I talk. Um, and I'll throw in a little profanity cause I, I will curse him. Like, that's just how I speak. Um, and I think that's the part that people will miss with the story.

So I just wanted to make sure they, they understand this is literally should read and be spoken and sound like I'm talking at you guys right now, you know? And J it's just in a text form and we're telling a specific story, you know, with it. [00:36:00] So just make sure it sounds natural when you read it back, otherwise uh it's you know, then just reword it.

Just, just make it sound like a conversation 

Benedikt: [00:36:07] the other way around. It's true as well. There are some people who. Um, even when they talk, they are really like, they really think about what they say they're really like eloquent and like they don't curse. They, um, maybe they have complicated, like deep lyrics or whatever.

And if that's the vibe of the band or the person, they shouldn't try to be, um, the way, like they shouldn't try to make posts like you do, because that would also be an authentic and authentic that the other way around is true 

John McLucas: [00:36:35] as well. I think. Oh, abs. Yeah. It's just it's it starts from like exactly who you are and having that be the tone of how you talk to people a hundred percent.

Yeah. Like that. And I think that's the problem with me is I'm so I'm so me that when people. Like, and I talked to him about content. They're like, well, I'm not of bubbly goober, like looked, you know, who'll do like, I'm like in my videos, [00:37:00] I'm just like dancing on my own in the room. And like, that's how I vibe.

And like when I'm, when I'm listening back to a track, I like I'll walk around the room and do that for three and a half minutes and like, make sure I feel like everything. Um, yeah. But that's yeah, that's not you then fine. Like I post how I am. Cause that's how I am. And Michelle has to deal with it every day.

Like she can tell you how authentically I am myself on the internet. Um, well, and, and my, my parents cause they did the first 18 years. Um, yeah. And so I think it's no matter what your voice is. Yes. If it's composed, if you're more reserved, you don't. Do four emojis at the end of every sentence, you know, it like, however you are is fine.

And just showing up your authentic, conversational voice, that will mean so much more than trying to. Emulate how a band does captions because they're in your niche, but 3000 times bigger it's, that'll take you so, so much further. Awesome. 

Benedikt: [00:37:54] Yeah. Um, thank you. So Malcolm, we cannot do this episode without talking real quick [00:38:00] about your other podcast.

Your band sucks at business because that's more of, that would actually be more a topic for, for your podcast. So I'm just curious. I don't know if you have an episode on content and I don't know if you, what observations or stories from your listeners that you have on this topic. Is there anything that stands out to you that common problems, issues, people have things they're struggling with?

I mean, 

Malcom: [00:38:24] the two that kind of stand out? Well, we actually had, it's funny because the fourth member of our old mastermind group that John was in with Denny and I, it was Steven Ward and, uh, Steven, uh, Was on the podcast just a few weeks ago. And we talked about, you know, he, he makes YouTube content, like nobody nobody's business.

So we, we talked a little bit about there and then I had a band called spirit box on back in the summer. That is just a content King as well. But, uh, the recurring theme that John's really driving home is that you have to meet people where you, where you are, right. And with the voice of either yourself [00:39:00] or your band, and maybe that's the same thing.

Um, I think. In, in the, like when I think it was spirit box, their bands voice is different than their personal voice. A little bit, they're very personal, but they also like their graphics have the filter of crazy scary metal band, you know, so, but, but they are like, they, they always did the best they could with what they had available.

You know, they, they only recently blew up and at the beginning they just, they, they talked about how they did everything in black and white. Because that's what they can make look good. You can make a black and white photo look cool pretty easily. Right? You don't have to have an amazing camera to pull that off.

And so that's what they did, right. Until they could afford to go for like an hire a videographer to do the, what they actually wanted. Um, so I guess the lesson maybe to pull from, from that, and again, which really ties into what John St here is that. Anything that's holding you back is just an excuse because you can start with just sharing this [00:40:00] podcast or sharing the book that you're reading about what you're trying to learn or, or sharing your guitar tone.

Like John said, right there, there's not really any reason that actually holds up when you, when you hold it. Like when you look at it, you kind of just start and make content. And if you want to hear this whole podcast again, I'm going to have John on my podcast eventually, and actually check him on there.

John McLucas: [00:40:24] We'll find it specific angle to dive into where we could even make it like a content review, edit we'll find something. Yeah. Um, and to, to bounce off of what you're saying there too, the. I think looking at the, yeah, like the Steven wards, who's his jaw, like? So we're also like Stephen and I, even though we're in very different places and we worked together very intimately, we've gone into different spheres where his job is the content like, like his, like, I don't know what is his position?

You know, I don't know the technical name for it, but like if he made content to make for neural DSP, like that's his, his main sphere of the job. So [00:41:00] sometimes I think. Like a Steven Ward in his position can also come off intimidating because it's like, Oh my God. So I, he has five cameras. He's got all this stuff.

You've got to get the lights set up. You've got to figure out how to do Adobe pro uh, the sushi spoosh of fact. And Hey, I'm Steven. With Daryl DSP, you know, like the little pause like that. And then people see that and they're like, Oh my gosh. Wow. That's so much work. Yeah. And then they spend hours on premiere, um, and all this stuff, but, but what's important to remember is, you know, when Steven and I started working together in, when we were each taking content more seriously, is it started so much more humbled than that.

And that's why for myself, it's like, I don't like talking about like lighting rakes or like gear choices or anything like that because it's so. When I think about what moves the needle to most, which is very much what I've been up to in my brain this year is like the lighting rig. Isn't why your content is flat or like not connecting with somebody, you know, the four years of gigging, the reason that people like don't care about your band anymore.

Isn't because [00:42:00] you didn't get the Sony 7,000 series with the gimbal to get that shot of you on the, in the studio. Like it's just not. Now there's a point when it becomes that. And when you are executing so regularly that then you get things to improve upon it. But that typically isn't the first thing. So I just want to remind people that, you know, just starting where you're at is completely okay.

And I, and I know to, to pivot into this super quickly are surface level, like, and, and then to say it, there's no better platform to do that on with refer content then on Tik TOK. Like, if there's a platform where you can be rough and UN cut and not sexy, you know, like, like with the visuals, but make content and have great things happen, it's on Tik TOK.

So within all that stuff, say there's, there's definitely, um, a balance of understanding, like, yeah, the Steven wards he's he's way beyond, but I do. Yeah, because again, my business model for myself, my personal self is my content is to build a connection and then I bring them [00:43:00] off the platform. You know, my mind isn't when a YouTube video tanks, I only need three people to care about it, to, for it to be effective.

So my model's also a little different in the objective, but, um, what I just, just to. Bring it back with getting everything done is it's like if we talk in the sense of documenting, if we show, uh, there's some great artists on Tik TOK, if I had to recommend them, um, as people who are crushing it with content at Gretta, Jamie G R E T H a, I J a I M E um, at Dominique music, uh, dominant, dominant Q U E.

Music, um, are both artists that on that platform are like normal humans who are just show making the coolest stuff that I actually watch. I'm like excited for when Gretta post a video lay on Tik TOK. And like, I can't wait to see it. And that doesn't really happen for people making songs, like making video content in their bedroom, you know, I don't know where she makes it, but, um, and so it's like just starting where you are.

It's okay. It shouldn't be [00:44:00] perfect. And, and, and if it is, you're probably spending too much time too early, like make it, just let it be a B minus visually and get it out and tell it like, the better story will take you so far. Like storytelling doesn't take any gear. It doesn't take anything at all.

Besides. Being open and vulnerable with guests is its own struggle. But that depends on who you are. Um, how you feel about the premise of being open, um, on the internet. But, uh, I just wanted to throw that caveat in there. So, so people don't come out of this too scared to shoot too high for their first, you know, Attempt at really coming into this space because it's like, it's scary.

There's a lot, there's a lot of fear in like the word content people get scared now. Yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:44:46] exactly. Yeah. And one more thing. What, what do you say when, when Malcolm just said, I found that interesting. When I come to set. The spirit box vibe of the band. It's a little different than, um, the personally, because that's also something to take [00:45:00] into consideration.

Like if you are a solo artists or if you're doing stuff like you do, you can be yourself because you are your brand in a way, and you like, it's you, but if it's a band and that's sort of separate and the band has a certain image or, or a certain vibe and. Um, so, so how, how do you go about it then? Like, should everyone posts from their own socials and just be authentic there?

Should you post something different on your band account? Or, and if so, what? Like, let's say you all have different, different people in the band, like different vibes and what's, what's the thing we should post as a band. Should we do that at all? Should we focus on our, on our personal socials? What would you say there, when it comes to groups of people?

John McLucas: [00:45:39] To me, the rule, like the law wouldn't change overall, but I think there would be, um, Just a little more intention, I would say with the band feed. And the only reason is the fact that again, we think about opportunity if your band, I think on Instagram, right. Where you can see, you know, you can easily scroll into the archive with the [00:46:00] format of the feed or reels or Instagram TV.

Um, we do want it to. Just a, like a little nicer than maybe every personal posts you might make. So again, you may not screenshot this podcast and put that on the band page cause that's, it's not going to like fit on the feed real nice, um, overall, but you can still tell a story of a lot of the stuff with the music making, working on stuff for the band doing, um, Get it so excited, submitting, like submitting the playlist and a little video of you guys playing the EAP out of your speakers on your laptop even, and everybody's on the couch jam and you guys like, you know, and then you're telling the story about how, um, what you guys are doing to make sure that this hits as many people as possible.

That's still a story that you're telling with the band, with your music. That's, that's authentic and. Could fit on the feed. Um, what I say puts do the, do my selfie, talking about me in therapy and my, my lit session I had, eh, that's not necessarily relevant to the music. So I might, I might quell [00:47:00] some of the more personal things, but we could still within the context of the band, take those moments of what you're doing as abandoned instead of rehearsal room vibes, you know, emoji, emoji, emoji, um, Talk about something, maybe.

How did you find that rehearsal spacer? Um, what, how, what was the energy coming into this, into the practice today? Or what happened during it? Or what, um, how did you feel afterwards compared to before? Like what, what's the change? How was the, how was the rehearsal space, a safe Haven from everything going on in 2020 that you get to escape from when you're creating art.

And that's why it's so exciting for you to put the CP together, right? So it still exists, but we're just maybe trimming some of the Uber personal stuff that people can be like. Why is this here? Um, which is maybe 20 to 30% on the, on the fringe of what you might get away with on a personal page. Yeah, 

Malcom: [00:47:51] it probably depends.

Well, you know, like if, if your band's brand is Uber honest, then hell yeah, you're good. Um, and go for that. [00:48:00] And I don't want to imply that any metal band, like, like spirit box, for example, isn't that actually, I think they are, they did create that stuff. So it is them, you know, they made that incredibly scary sounding music, which I love, but it's a.

Like, they're also such a nice piece of people. So there's like this weird little, they have to juggle being really nice people because they care about being nice people with this evil music. People is the wrong word, but you know what I mean? Right. Yeah. And that, I think that's really cool, but what. Um, I I'm thinking about now, as you were kind of describing that John, is that they have made it so that people that want to get closer and get on that personal level, have that option with their like community options, like with Patrion and stuff.

Right. So if you want to get down on that level and talk to them, one-on-one it's possible. Um, which, so you can almost do both in a way, um, or I guess you told you can do both. You can have the trimmed. More, uh, like Instagram filtered, [00:49:00] uh, like content as well as this really personal stuff going on for, for the people that want it, which is really cool.

John McLucas: [00:49:08] Yeah, absolutely. 

Benedikt: [00:49:10] Cool. Well that's yeah, that was, that was already awesome. And I think it also, it was important to me that we really. Make it clear that making content, doing stuff and social media and being like out there using those platforms can be done in an authentic and in a cool way. And in like, it's not like some bands, especially in the band world.

I just have to say it, especially like the punk rock or alternative world. So many people are afraid of even doing that stuff. On the one hand, they want people to listen to their music just as every band does and they want to sell their records. But on the other hand, they don't want to use social media or don't want to make content or don't want to do all this, these things because they consider it selling out or it's like fake and like it's, I don't know all these weird things.

And you've made it pretty clear that everyone [00:50:00] can do like authentic things. You don't have to be someone else. You don't have to pretend something, you don't have to do something weird that that is not really you. Um, and you can find your audience that, and yeah, it's, it's nothing it's not wrong to do these things, even if you're like an authentic, real punk band or whatever.

And there are good examples of, of people who do that. And, um, yeah, so that, that was very important to me because that really. Came came across and came through here in this conversation. And, um, yeah, so. 

John McLucas: [00:50:30] Can I sneak, I want to sneak in one thing to the punk bands. Right. We're talking about that scene because I love those scenes too, where it's like, like they lean towards being elitist, lean non-conformist right.

And all that stuff. And it's like, what? Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:50:42] I'm part of that. So I'm not, I'm not talking shit about that because I grew up in the hardcore and punk scene. I used to think that way for a long time, like, that's something I had to learn as well. So 

John McLucas: [00:50:50] yeah. You know what, but, you know, what's, you know, what's amazing about it is you could still be, we talk about authenticity and you feel like, well, I'm so edgy or whatever you are like that, that I can't possibly, [00:51:00] um, fit into this box of talking about my grandma, because I'm cool or whatever.

Then maybe your social media content is super polarizing political hot button issues. And you. Pope your photo on Instagram is a graphic of, for example, Donald Trump. And it's a, and it's a really lewd rendition of him getting something inserted in somewhere. And then, and then you wrote a 15 second punk track about what's happening in the photo.

Like that could be your authentic, uh, uh, car. Parking's not happening anymore since we're on lockdown. Hey. Oh. But, um, but that could be your really authentic voice that still speaks to the. Integrity of the band and the art. It's just manifests in a very different way than how I want to connect to people.

If for you, you, every day you get up. And the one thing that you hate is Donald like Donald Trump and, uh, you know, all these things that he stands for and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, make content about that. Make any, Oh my God, that would go so viral on tech talk. I'm so like, if [00:52:00] that was the starting image and then you, and then you had a fifteens that, that was up there with the caption, um, my memoir to Trump, and then you wrote a fifth, a 12 second punk track down.

You're like, I don't know what it is. I don't do. I don't make the kind kinda music, but like that's, that's, that's. Almost horrifyingly authentic in a great way. Um, it will only attract the people who respond to that message, which is part of content that's we want to do is attract the right kind of people and it will get attention.

And if you're a punk band, right, that's the premise of, of fringe counter culture scenes is to be almost absurd to the point where it's almost impossible to not listen. Like I feel like that's part of the energy that I feel from it. And. There's no better opportunity than on Tik TOK to take that and or to rake or to make content about how punk you are, that you hate tech talk, but you have to be on it because you know that the organic reach on Tik TOK is so good.

Like the there's so many ways that you could take it. Yeah. Yeah. And be like, I'll take it. I'll let China do all these things, you know? Cause I, you know, I need, you [00:53:00] know, cause. If Donald Trump, you know, like, I don't know. That could be the message. Um, that's okay. That's what hook. All right. If somebody goes viral with that, you have to at least tag me in the comments.

Um, but that to me is like the great part of it is whatever your message is. There are people out here who want to hear it and who will connect with it. Who will be inspired or motivated or want to hear more. Um, and it can even be better if it's really polarizing and you're in a fringe scene, you could be the biggest Punko hardcore band in 2021, because you go on to take talk and write these absurdly polarizing really intentionally vial lyrics about hot button things going on in our culture right now.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

Benedikt: [00:53:40] Yeah. Yeah, totally. I totally agree. I 

John McLucas: [00:53:43] wouldn't want that to be my brand, but you could go big if that, if that's what you write about and that you want that to be your thing, you would slay it. You would slay. 

Benedikt: [00:53:51] I agree. Actually, friends of friends of mine and I had, there was a singer on my other podcast as well.

Yulia she's she's the front woman of this band. And [00:54:00] they actually made a video as just like you described, they made a music video this year, where they actually inserted something in a Donald Trump looking like. The doll or banned wearing a mask or whatever, but they did exactly that in a music video.

John McLucas: [00:54:12] So that now, now what they need to do is they take that, that raw footage. You need to reformat it for tick talk and then make a six second to eight second version of it and then say, tag Donald Trump in the comments like that's, that's how you take your music and you troll people with the message you want to tell with your art.

Yeah, right. And then we can get into, into the Tik TOK weeds with that stuff. But yeah. There's no matter what your message is, there's a way to tell it on social media, um, that, that is authentic to you. And I think that's what I really want to drive home here. Even if it's putting things in holes. People to say that you don't like them.

Like, there's, there's an audience for that. Yeah, exactly. 

Benedikt: [00:54:52] And people who go, who are going to hate it, which is good as well for you. 

John McLucas: [00:54:55] Oh, Oh, those they'll comment. And then you win anyways. Yeah. So right. Cause then the [00:55:00] comment ratio took talks going to put it out to everybody anyways. So it's a win-win. Yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:55:05] absolutely.

Well, I mean, thank you so much for doing this, John. Thank you so much for your time. Uh, it's a good place to, to wrap this up, I think. And I just want to tell people that. They should. Absolutely. If they're interested in, if they like what you, what they've heard now and, um, if they like your vibe, they should absolutely join the modern music creator Facebook group.

So go there on Facebook, the modern music creator it's John's Facebook group with, as the title says music, creators, exchanging ideas, helping each other out like finding like-minded like-minded people. Go there also. Yeah. Please share the episode. Tag us tech at Sean underscore Mike Lucas and, uh, at Nakamoto and flat and at Benedict time and tag us in at Instagram on Instagram.

And, uh, I dunno, where can, where else can people find you? You've done a whole, so many things this year. You've got a program on, on like vocal production. You post a lot, as we've already heard [00:56:00] you have this Facebook. Uh, community, you are a music producer, of course. So where can people find you? How can they contact you as the best way to do 

John McLucas: [00:56:07] this?

The number one way is probably through social media. If you do want to start a conversation on a more intimate level. Cause I usually like to chat a bit before we'd go into a call. Um, that's just like a personal way that I've chose to do my business. And, uh, beyond that, yeah, the Facebook group is a great place.

Just add me on Facebook. I have a page, but I don't use it. I'm looking to use it for ads when I start wearing those in like two months. Um, It all it only exists to do that function and I will never post to it. I do. It's, it's awful, but that's a great place. Instagram at Joel and underscore McLucas on Tech-Talk as well.

John underscore McLucas and my YouTube channel, uh, is the, you can't miss the beard with the blue background. It's pretty, it's pretty bushy in the photo. So it's unmissable, but I also want to say what would make my day, if I had to tell people something like what would make my day more than them?

Following me. It's like, I want to almost make a challenge to, you can only [00:57:00] follow me if you post a piece of social media comment, content, and then you tag me in the caption. I want, I want you to tell the story. I want you to document something in your day. I want you to tell a story about how important that thing is, what it meant to you, why it's important, but like tell me a story about it and then tag me at the end of the post and then I will follow you.

And then we can, then we can be friends because I want to push you to do something and actually get started today. Cause it's so easy to stay in pontification. And I want to take you out of that and actually like force you to. Um, to hit, publish into get uncomfortable because you won't be able to take advantage of this, this ocean of opportunity with so starting with it.

So that's, that's my choice has given me one social media post. Even if it's a screenshot of this, you tag us in a story and you say like, hi John, I did it. And I follow me like, that's fine. You post you, you made a piece of content. I would prefer you tell the story, but something to get you started in that space, it would be huge.

Definitely. 

Benedikt: [00:57:52] Awesome. Absolutely do that challenge. Thank you for that. Malcolm, anything you want to add to this? I just want to 

Malcom: [00:57:58] say thanks so much for coming on [00:58:00] John. It's been too long since we've, uh, I've managed to catch up and, uh, I missed your face. It's great 

John McLucas: [00:58:05] to see you. Yeah. See you guys too. Thank you.

Yeah. Thanks again. And, uh, just, I just had an absolute pleasure. Me too. Me too. 

Benedikt: [00:58:12] Thank you so much, man. 

John McLucas: [00:58:14] All right. Well, and that's the 

Malcom: [00:58:15] outro guys.