TSRB Podcast 058 - What's Good Enough_ - The Minimum Requirements For A Great Sounding DIY-Recording - PT II

[00:00:00] Malcom: [00:00:00] How we came up with these is based on our experience of being sent tracks to mix. And it's like, okay, you hit these boxes, but you kind of missed this choir to make a good record. This has to happen. 

Benedikt: [00:00:16] This is the self recording band podcast, the show where we help you make exciting records on your own, wherever you are, DIY stuff.

Let's go.

Hello and welcome to the show. Self recording band podcast. I am your host. Benedick tide. And I'm here with my friend and cohost. Malcolm. How are you? My low. 

Malcom: [00:00:37] Hello? Hello. I'm great, man. How are you? 

Benedikt: [00:00:39] Happy Monday. Happy Monday. I'm good. Fantastic, actually, fantastic. 

Malcom: [00:00:45] I had a cool story. I want to share from the weekend.

Can't wait, have you seen the movie pirate radio? No. Are you familiar with it? 

Benedikt: [00:00:54] What's it called? Pirate radio. Yep. I'm looking at right now. 

Malcom: [00:00:58] See, if you recognize the camera, it was a [00:01:00] pretty big movie, really? And I think you would like it if you, yeah. If you haven't seen it, you should totally, totally check it out.

All 

Benedikt: [00:01:05] right. Several. Okay. It's a different title here in Germany. It's called radio rock revolution. 

Malcom: [00:01:10] Oh, okay. Uh, Oh yeah. That's weird. I found like, yeah, the name pirate radio. And then this says the boat that rocked. Yeah. That's 

Benedikt: [00:01:17] the original title it says here. Oh, weird. 

Malcom: [00:01:19] Okay. Huh. Interesting. Well, yeah, if you've seen the boat that rocked pirate radio, or what was yours called?

Radio rock revolution. Yeah. Have you seen any of those titles that's relevant? Um, so anyways, there's this DJ, uh, real life DJ that's, um, portrayed by somebody in this movie called Johnny, um, Johnny Walker, like the whiskey. I think that's a whiskey. Uh, but, uh, his name's Johnny Walker. He's one of the most famous radio DJs ever, because essentially what they did is they started at a pirate radio station on this boat when they weren't allowed to, and just kept playing rock music, um, out to rebellious teens around the UK.

[00:02:00] And anyways, so Johnny Walker is like legendary. Um, and he's still got a show on BBC radio, too. And they played a song I mixed and produced on Saturday, which is great. This is like an audience of like 15 million people apparently. Oh, wow. Yeah, Alice Cooper was on the show and stuff. It was pretty sweet.

Benedikt: [00:02:17] That's sweet. Which band 

Malcom: [00:02:19] was it? A guy named Brett Smith Daniels. And, uh, he's a great, amazing guitarist. So it's like a rock song I'm super stoked with. It's like one of the biggest productions, I've been a part of where we have like a giant horn section and, and, uh, I mean, it was one guy that played all the horns, but there's a huge horn arrangement and string arrangement on the song.

It's very like cinematic. It, it should be on like a James Bond. Movie or something. I feel like 

Benedikt: [00:02:43] that's pretty awesome. Like I saw that did the soundtrack for the movie, which is also probably pretty 

Malcom: [00:02:51] good. Yeah. Definitely like, um, so yeah, that was a cool thing that happened. I thought I'd share that. 

Benedikt: [00:02:56] Yeah, absolutely.

Congress man. That's. Like you've been [00:03:00] doing some cool stuff lately. Like the last time we had the radio airplay for the wet future, right. The band that you did and now this, so yeah. Stoked. 

Malcom: [00:03:09] Yep. Very stoked. Presbyt Daniels is actually the artist that was featured on the radio this past weekend. Uh, he is self recording a song currently right now, and I'm hoping I'm going to get the files to mix that.

This week. Um, but he's, he's going for the DIY thing that we're teaching. And I think it's going to be great. He's been sending me little demos along the way to see how it's coming along and, uh, So maybe we can get that on the radio. It's it's I just want to get a fully DIY recording that I get to mix on the radio so bad.

That'll just be like the biggest proof of our, our whole podcast. 

Benedikt: [00:03:40] Absolutely. Yeah. As I said, that happened to me twice last year, which is awesome and jealous. Every single time that happens is like, uh, well, it's. It's the best thing. Uh, you said something interesting that I want to have a question on real quick, because you said like he's sending you demos and, um, yeah, you're going back and [00:04:00] forth.

Probably giving him feedback or I don't know how the process, uh, what the process looks like, but. Do you actually do that a lot with like self recording bands and people? Do you like that process or is it usually that they just recorded? The first thing you hear is the final 

Malcom: [00:04:16] recorded thing. I like to get stuff sooner than later.

So I like the potential of being able to spot a problem in advance can be such a huge. Advantage. So, um, the, the sooner, the better kind of thing, I think in hindsight, I should've been asking them to send me even stems maybe so I could like really look at closely. Um, but I, I really trust his ability. He's, he's a very talented guy, so I'm sure it's 

Benedikt: [00:04:39] going to be great.

Awesome. Yeah. And I ask him because I found that I really actually enjoy that process a lot. It's like, I always did it, but especially since I've stopped recording and I, since I do only mixing mastering, I spent more time doing the remote production thing where like, People sent me demos. I could feedback.

They refine, they send it again. I'll get feedback [00:05:00] again. And we go, look, we do it like that until we feel the songs are finished and then they start recording. And maybe I even give feedback on the recording, as you said, like, if, if everything sounds good and I, at first, when my calendar was full with recordings and mixing and mastering and editing and all those things, I couldn't spend as much time doing that.

And it was always, it always felt like. It was pretty exhausting. And that was always, I always felt a little behind on that stuff. And now I can do that much more and it's became part of my package basically that I offer. And I've found that I really enjoy it actually like the, just sitting back with headphones, listening, and only listening for the music more than anything, and like writing down my thoughts in real time, sending it back.

It's like something I really, really enjoy because it's. I don't have to be in the ideal listening position. I don't have to even be in the studio. I can like take a walk and let, just listen to the demos and see how the other songs feel. That's a totally different perspective. And it's so helpful, both for musicians [00:06:00] and for me.

So I was just curious about how, like, how you feel about that, because I really. Enjoy that now. 

Malcom: [00:06:05] Yeah, I think I've got it. I've had it both ways where it's been a really good process, but then I've also had it where they are like sending me tracks, expecting me to have like, it's almost, they think that I've got the master session going.

Yeah, for over like, you know, this undetermined amount of time that they're going to be recording. And like that doesn't really work. Like I can't, if I'm not the producer, I can't be organizing and worrying about editing all these tracks and stuff like that. It's just, um, it's a different mindset, you know, to be that person and a different job entirely as we've discussed.

Um, so sometimes there's some boundaries that have to get established, but like happy to look at these, but I'm just going to be like listening, you know, I'm not. Working the tracks yet until we're mixing. Um, and I'll just be offering thoughts kind of thing. Uh, I have a related question for you now. Um, I got 16 or no, I got nine songs, but they got 16 total coming for this band that I planned to be working with.

And, uh, [00:07:00] I listened to them all and made some notes kind of thing. I like to like do that. I listen to all of them in a row. I don't repeat any of them. And it's just, like you said, like I'm not in the sweet spot, like in work mode, I'm just listening. And I just make my gut reaction notes. I personally liked, I cannot listen to the songs again until there's like a new version that shows up.

Um, do you, you like do that as well? You know, like my, my philosophy is that I want to hear it for the first time and I want to have that ability for as long as possible. So ideally by the time they sent me a new version, I forgotten about the song entirely. Like exactly where I think some people, when they send me demos, they kind of think that I've been like, thinking about it eight hours a day for, since they emailed it to me.

But it's like, you get like, literally how long your song is, this how long I'm trying to think about it. And then I'm literally trying to not think about it until I like I'll send you those notes and it's off my plate until the next time. You similar? 

Benedikt: [00:07:54] Yes, totally. And I, um, actually see people kind of like that [00:08:00] now.

And I always explain it like that, that I do like this. So my process is pretty similar. I get the demos. I listen, and while I'm listening in real time, I make notes. So I'm going to. Sometimes I just, I just write down my thoughts. Sometimes these notes will have things like, okay. Like intro is cool. Let's see what happens.

Oh yeah. Um, verse like the transition to the worst is a little weird. Oh wow. And the chorus kicks in really well, stuff like that. So I'm listening in real time and like writing down whatever I think. Um, and then I'm gonna, I'm, I'm sending it to the band and I tell them that I do that in real-time once not listening again, it just, this use that.

And then if ideally there's enough time between that first round at the second round. So that, as you said, I forgot about the songs basically. And what then what I then do is I do the exact same thing the second time around. And I do not look at my notes from the first round. So I do the same process. I listened to the songs just as if, as if it was the first time.

Um, I make. I write down everything that comes to mind. [00:09:00] And then it's interesting to compare the two feedback rounds or two notes to see if some of those things are still the same or if some of the things are not appearing anymore on the new notes. And this is a pretty interesting process sometimes for me.

And, uh, yeah, I do the exact same thing. And if it's, and I don't want to do it if it's like too close. So if they send me demos, I sent them the feedback. And then two days later I get the new. Demos out if at all possible I wait till I listen to them. 

Malcom: [00:09:28] Yeah. Some space that that ability to hear for the first time is so good.

Valuable. Um, yeah. And then like another kind of philosophy is like, um, almost intentionally really vague at that first listen through. It's like, if I don't think I almost listened to them all, even if it's going to be an album set, for example, with these nights songs, I listened to them as if I'm choosing a single, like, I can only choose one.

So if there's like a song that's not. Single material to me. I just write not a single cool album track. Like there's no, there's no feedback at all. Cause I'm not [00:10:00] worried about that song right now kind of thing. Um, and we'll, we'll get to that when we are working on that song kind of thing. And I'll obviously dive deeper, but for demos kind of thing, it's like.

Yeah, but let's focus on the good shit first, listen through kind of thing. And it's just like, this has potential this one doesn't um, yeah. And then sometimes there's like, no, it's like, Hey, this verse is just boring. Um, but sometimes it's also just like kick ass guitar dope or whatever, you know, like it's, it's just a feeling.

And I think some people get that. Uh, but some people, I think don't whether like this isn't very detailed, but other people do realize that the reaction to the song, rather than whatever your guitar part is, is much more important. That's like the most valuable feedback that I'm going to be able to give is this is like, I really think this is a good song like that.

That's what you need to hear. And we need to determine are these songs good? 

Benedikt: [00:10:52] Yeah, totally. Yeah. I do similar things. I mean, I do listen to all of the songs, so the single things, not really something I do, what I do is [00:11:00] when I'm hired as like, if I'm not just mixing, but really like remote producing stuff like that.

If I, so if there's the budget so that I can spend even more time with the songs, sometimes people want to do like 10 songs, but they've written 15 or they have 15 demos and then they want my feedback on what I think are the songs that should go on the record. So then I make notes about, like, I think this one is not, should not be on that.

That's maybe a, I dunno, for a split or a side or whatever, or just throw it away entirely. Yeah. Things like that. But, um, usually I give feedback on every song, but yeah, it's like interesting, interesting topic, like not really related to today's episode. Like interesting. And I think for, for people also interesting to hear.

Yeah, how that works 

Malcom: [00:11:44] to clarify. I do listen to all the songs it's just at the beginning, I'm prioritizing what I think they should focus on. And it's like, let's work on these songs for now because they're their priority. Let's do that while you're fresh. 

Benedikt: [00:11:57] Totally. Um, one more thing before we end the [00:12:00] banter here, um, that I wanted to say, because that's, what I focused on this past weekend is I've speaking of priorities.

I always have like too much on my plate. Like, that's totally like a problem that I create for myself because like I have a hard time saying no to things and I have to force myself to say no to stuff, but, um, it was sort of a resolution that I. Uh, don't do as much anymore and that I am more selective and picky about stuff that I do and commitments I, I take on and this weekend I finally implemented the GTD method.

I don't know if you're familiar with that. The getting things done by David Allen I've read the book. It was fascinating, like mind blowing to me. And I don't know, not it's not for everyone probably, but it like really speaks to me to my personality type. I'm like an organizer and planner and I really, really like his way of thinking.

And. Organizing things. So I took the time and implemented that system and I feel so much more organized and better. And I feel like it's pretty dangerous because now I feel like I [00:13:00] could take on anything because I'm so well organized. So I don't wanna do that obviously, but I feel like I'm much more in control of all the things that I already have on my plate.

So I just want to say, if any of you feel overwhelmed with like music projects or like you have a business or side business or a day job and band and whatnot, and you. Constantly feeling behind give that book a shot. It's like a recommendation really? That like, just try, see if it works for you. It's called getting things done by David Allen.

Um, it's been really, really cool for me. 

Malcom: [00:13:31] Yeah. It's a very well-regarded book. Um, for sure. The, I almost wonder if it's been updated since I read it because there was definitely some stuff that wasn't very modernized when I went through it. Um, but there's, there's always in books like that there are classics for a reason.

There's always like such good concepts to cherry pick from, even if you don't take the whole darn system. 

Benedikt: [00:13:51] Right. I think it's been modernized. I think the last edition was like a couple of years ago and it has all the digital tools and everything in it that we can [00:14:00] use today. So, um, yeah, it's totally worked for me and it's more of the mindset behind it anyway, so yeah.

Malcom: [00:14:06] Just letters that one, I can't remember the exact time he says, but it's like something like, if it takes less than say 60 seconds, just do it right now. The two minutes, two minutes, two minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and I've been trying to like work with that over this, even this last week. Just like there's no reason not to just do that one thing as soon as it hits me, um, where often there is a reason to delay.

Um, like I try not to answer every email just as it comes in because that's like reactive kind of thing. And I want to batch that stuff, but with, I don't know, Like fricking washing the dish that I just used for lunch. Like whatever, he's getting that stuff. So there's not, there's not like these little clutters that are just never going to be our priority.

Cause they're not important, but they still have to get done. Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:14:46] Yeah. It's like, there's, it's way too complicated to explain on the show. I just, it's just something that was on my mind. And I thought maybe for some of you listeners, if you, like, if you make a record yourself, it's a lot of organizing and planning to do a lot of communication.

You'll [00:15:00] probably still have a job or you. I dunno, whatever you do. Uh, if you have a job, a family, a band, and maybe a side business or whatever, um, it's, this is an interesting concept that you could look into. So yeah, 

Malcom: [00:15:12] definitely. All right. What we're actually meant to talk about at 18 minutes into that, that was like a mini episode 

Benedikt: [00:15:19] right there.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. If you are still listening now we get to the actual stuff. So, um, We are doing part two of last week's episode. And it's about, um, the essential basically like the, the minimum requirements that you like. It's, it's almost like a checklist of things you need to make sure you get it right.

So that yes, it's gonna work out and sound good in the end and that you could work with mixers and don't have problems along the way and get the result you're going for. So, We finished last time with drums and we continue now with bass guitars, vocals and all the rest. Yeah. The 

Malcom: [00:15:59] drums take up [00:16:00] one whole episode and then the rest gets another.

Exactly. 

Benedikt: [00:16:02] So just, just to, if you just joined us this episode and didn't listen to last week's episode, what we're going to do is we're, we're talking about a minimum requirements technically, but also like when it comes to performance, Um, pitfalls, typical pitfalls things to avoid, like just sort of defining a standard that you need to hit.

If you want to get a professional product back from a mix engineer, for example, or even if you're mixing yourself, like these are the minimum requirements you need to make sure you get right during the recording and production phase. That's true. 

Malcom: [00:16:34] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is true that it's, even if you plan to mix yourself, they still have to hit all these, but how we came up with these as.

Based on our experience of being sent tracks to mix. And it's like, okay, you hit these boxes, but you kind of missed this requirement to make a good record. This has to happen. Um, so this is, I think this is going to be a really good, useful series for people just to review before they start any recording.

It's like, okay. Yeah. Have we thought about this? That has to [00:17:00] get done. And then when we send it to Benny or Malcolm, they're going to be happy with us. Oh yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:17:05] exactly. All right. Let's jump in. Listen to the last time last week's episode, if you haven't yet. Um, and then, uh, yeah, you can catch up on that. And now this let's, uh, Continue with base.

Malcom: [00:17:17] Okay. I was wondering if you're going to demand, we start with guitar 

Benedikt: [00:17:20] after drums. Oh yeah. Oh, damn. Yeah, of course. We just said no, I'll go through the list, but yeah, guitars will be next of course, by the way, Malcolm, Matt, I just want to say it again, Markham. Um, actually you, you actually. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:17:38] Something that you interpretated as cars, 

Benedikt: [00:17:42] I just looked it up.

You basically, because I've written it down, you, you basically confirmed that I was writing and that the right order to do things, it is like drums, then guitar and then bass. So it's all the episodes. You said it.

[00:18:00] Okay. Now it's been 

Malcom: [00:18:03] fun with base. Yeah. Well, now that I haven't ever tuned, I'm happy to go guitars first, but, um, all right. So onto the episode, I'm sorry, people listening, I'm sorry. Uh, really like the. The most important thing is just get us a clean BI of that base. Um, that'll give us so much power to undo any terrible engineering work done on carabiner base Apatow.

Um, I see some nightmare tracks come in when people try and make up like three different bass amps in the same room as each other. And, uh, that can really be bad. Sometimes it can like really be unusable. Um, and I mean, there's always a way, but IDI. We're off to the races. And obviously I still want people to try and get those amp tones.

Like ideally you're sending those both at the, I ended up, but make sure that the happens that's so important. 

Benedikt: [00:18:55] Yes. Agreed. Nothing to add to this. Like we were the base da, you can do [00:19:00] everything basically in mixing it's like, yeah, make sure that sounds great. Everything else is like almost optional and you can really be creative there.

You can. Do whatever you want with your actual base tone and just send it as a reference or hoping that it can be used as long as you have a clean, great sign in the eye, you're free to do whatever you want with the base tone. Yes. 

Malcom: [00:19:18] Yeah. Basis with this weird thing where there's not a lot of variables in that.

Uh, it's not like a drum kit where we have all these different mikes and FES and stuff like that, that we're always having to worry about. So it's much less complex. You don't need a huge amount of, uh, uh, gear investment to get a good base recording done. Um, but knowing what to listen for as you produce a bass track is something that takes years of experience to really understand and hear the way that pros do.

Um, and I, I don't even know why that is, but it just is. Uh, and so base Diaz, why recording is kind of routinely. Not awesome. Um, which obviously we're trying to fix 

Benedikt: [00:19:58] yes, yes. Yeah. [00:20:00] Old episode on, or maybe multiple episodes at this point on, on base that you should definitely definitely check out. Um, if you go to the show notes, by the way, which is the self recording band.com/ 58, the show notes for this episode, there are always related episodes, um, links to related episodes in the show notes.

So you'll find. The, the base episodes that I just mentioned they are. And you can like have a listen because bass is really, really, really important. And people often get so much wrong about it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. All right. Um, our favorite thing to say, you need a new strings. If you record bass.

Definitely and probably a new pack of strings for every new song, at least, or most of the 

Malcom: [00:20:44] time, at least replaced that, that lowest one, if you're hitting that all the time, that would be very wise. Um, yeah. So yeah, we've said that a hundred times. I'm not even going to get it down. Yeah. New strings. Um, and then Intune, [00:21:00] uh, when we say Intune, we really mean it with base.

Uh, and this is in fact why Benny likes to do bass. After guitars, but it's also for the same reason why I like to do it first, the best 

Benedikt: [00:21:11] thing about this, we're doing totally opposite things for the same reason.

Malcom: [00:21:18] One of us in Germany is wrong. Uh, but yeah, just like literally you gotta be watching the tuner for every note, you hit kind of thing. Um, and, and. Tuning for each note, if it takes it, your, your instrument needs to be set up very, very well. Um, just that intonation is so important for a great sounding record.

So don't underplay that if you haven't checked the intonation on your instrument before you record the screwed up, do it again. 

Benedikt: [00:21:45] Yeah. And I think that oftentimes people think the guitars are out of tune or sometimes they even think the vocalist is out of tune when it, in fact is the base. So in. I would almost say like in 90% of all records that I got to mix, there was some tuning issues with the [00:22:00] bass, like almost an every record.

And it's some, it takes some experience to realize it's the bass, because sometimes you really think it's the leaky guitar or whatever you think the solo is sort of weird. And then you. Sometimes I pull up a Melodyne or whatever, and like analyze the solo. And I, I see that it's perfect basically, but it still sounds wrong.

And then when I get to the core of the issue is often, or most of the times the base, uh, same thing can happen with vocals. And like, it's just hard to hear when a very low note is out of tune, but in context, something just sounds off. So you really pay attention to that 

Malcom: [00:22:33] really pay attention to make sure it's great.

Um, Uh, chicken Patton wrote a post into a forum we're both in. And, uh, he said, bass is the foundation. So if you don't get that right, it's something along those lines. But basis, the foundation was one of them. So that was, uh, Oh, is somebody asked what they're tuning most often. And he said, bass, he said, bass over vocals are getting tuned digitally more often, which I bet.

Most people listening to this podcast [00:23:00] would have never said that they would always assume vocals are being too more than 

Benedikt: [00:23:03] base that you mean tune it in post pro like, um, after the fact. Yeah, absolutely. Um, 

Malcom: [00:23:08] which is like, yeah, it's something I'd never thought about before, but told the truth. 

Benedikt: [00:23:12] And another reason why you need a great Dai track, because if you have a distorted bass, for example, it's much, much harder to tune that compared to clean the eye with less harmonic content.

Yeah, 

Malcom: [00:23:21] definitely. So if you're intending to use that weird, awkward. Multi amp rigs that you've got going on for the base. It has to be perfectly in tune. Otherwise we're going to have to use the Dai. Um, and reamp something out of that DUI to get a similar tone, which is no problem, but just, it's something to be aware of.

If, if you're really wanting to get that tone, the tunings on 

Benedikt: [00:23:41] you. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Let's get to, let's get to technical and performance pitfalls. And I think performance is the biggest thing after tuning with base, because it's basically it's all in the right hand. That's what I always say, because bass tone really is in the right hand.

It the way you hit, like how [00:24:00] hard you hit, how consistent you hit is gonna determine what the base sounds like. Especially in like the rock or heavier genres. It's so, so important to be consistent and to hit pretty hard or like, um, right. For the thing you recording. And, uh, that's something that I, where I, there's not much you can do about, like, sometimes I hear that they've used new strings and it's in tune, but it just.

Hi. I don't know. It's just, just doesn't sit right. It doesn't feel right. It's not the foundation that I'm looking for and it's because the playing sucks. So, um, The timing, of course also, but more than anything, I think it's the, the consistency and the attack that you hear in great bass players. 

Malcom: [00:24:42] Yeah.

There's so many variables to consider as a musician. So, you know, when you're going to the studio for the first time, you get really obsessed with playing and time. Um, and maybe you start nailing that you get really good with a metronome and you think you're set. But you will then have to also account for how you're hitting each note and [00:25:00] like how it actually sounds and stuff like that.

There's just, it's a big, holistic thing that has to happen. Um, so yeah, it's all in the right hand. Shout out to our listener, Richie Jackson, who I know is recording. I think today, maybe that was on the weekend. Uh, but he messaged me saying that he's been practicing his, his down pick and like crazy getting his right hand to shape for it.

And I was like, yes. Good job. 

Benedikt: [00:25:20] Yes, absolutely. Yeah. That's a good point. Like down picking. It was guitarist and we get to that maybe even more so in Palm you'd parts and stuff like that, but also with base, if it's not really super fast. So if you can pull it off, try at least try, like doing down strokes for some parts instead of like the alternate picking stuff.

Sometimes it depends sometimes the up and down sounds better, but at least try what sounds better and don't automatically do the whatever feels easier or like don't, don't go the, the easy road route. Um, yeah. See if, if, if down strokes maybe something more consistent 

Malcom: [00:25:55] and the reason down picking seems to be popular is that it is in [00:26:00] general, more consistent sounding than alternate picking.

Um, it just kind of. Does that for you? So it's a kind of a, almost a trick to get a more consistent sound is just forcing yourself to down pick as much as possible. Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:26:11] When I get tracks from really great bass players, especially also in the rock or heavier genres, but like in general, sometimes they play so consistently that it almost sounds like a mini base or like a program base.

Like I had that sometimes where I was like, wow, this is, this is almost like. Um, I don't know, this is super, super inhuman sounding in a way it's like some people can pull that off where every note is exactly the same almost, and it might sound weird or like sterile or robotic on its own, but in the context of a song, most of the time, it's just the foundation you need.

So, yeah, 

Malcom: [00:26:45] definitely. Uh, I, I totally agree with that. Like mini base. I actually quite love, I've gotten to use it a few times this year already, and it like has really done the job well, but I wish I could D or humanize it a little bit. Um, but honestly I'd probably only like if there [00:27:00] was a humanized knob, I'd probably dial it back 5% from perfect.

That's all I'd want, you know, like just that slightest bit. Cause it's and then yeah, vice versa. When people send me tracks and they can get it. To like damn near perfect sounding like inhuman. Like you said it once it's in the mix, it's like, Oh my God, this is great. Yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:27:17] totally agreed. All right. What's next 

Malcom: [00:27:19] year.

Um, well we, we kind of talked about intonation already. Um, so that's, that's off the list, I think. Yeah. Uh, I've written down. I think I wrote this down. I remind you that media-based solves all that.

Uh, that's. That's kind of it joke. I mean, I, like I said, I do love mini base and I think that a lot of rock, um, and heavier productions can use it. No problem. I actually just used it on a like kind of soft rock tune. Um, and it did great, but that song didn't demand. Uh, like focused on the base part, you know, it's holding down the roots, thinking with the kick mini base, like that it was done in like 30 minutes programming, you know, um, and mixed, ready.

So [00:28:00] don't be afraid of that. You also get, again, another situation that gives the, the mixer a lot of power, because we can swap out the base itself for a different virtual instrument. Um, but we want to, well on that, uh, I like this one that you wrote down. Benny D I 

Benedikt: [00:28:12] clipping, did I wrote it down? Uh, yeah, I, I did.

I did. I did. Yes. Um, Yeah, go on. What did you like about it? 

Malcom: [00:28:22] Well, I think it's just worth mentioning, um, and that's worth mentioning for all parts of this actually, uh, clipping seems to happen more often than it should for some reason. Um, but so clipping CA can sound good. We, we have to kind of establish that.

I think, um, especially clipping the DEI can be cool. Um, But it's probably something that you're better off just leaving alone and not doing and letting your mixer decide to do that. If they want to, I can clip the DEI signal. If I get sent one that isn't clipped, right. That's in my power. Um, w w what are your thoughts on that?

Benedikt: [00:28:56] And also, I think that it's a different sort of [00:29:00] clipping, like the clipping that happens when people plug their active base into an interface, the eye that doesn't have enough headroom. For example, like a Hi-C input on an interface. So for example, my interface here, my small bus powered interface that I have, if I plug even my passive P bass in there, and I hit the lowest string, really hard it's clips with the gain all the way to the left, there's just not enough headroom.

And that sort of clipping that happens often. It just doesn't sound pleasing. And it's also inconsistent because you will clips the loudest notes and everything else would be clean. If we clip a da on purpose, we'll probably do it in a different way. We'd probably try to make it consistent and give and use it to shape the overall sound of a bass or to tame some of the transitions.

But then it's probably not like the ugly sort of digital heart clipping from a cheap preamp. So, um, or a trip converter. So as I think as with everything. It it's all about being intentional. So what I'm talking about here, when I say Dai clipping, and you should avoid it is you should [00:30:00] avoid the unintentional clipping off your input for like, if you have to not enough headroom.

And in this case, if that happens to you, use it, the iBox. If you have an active instrument with a lot of output or even a passive base and your interface just can't handle it, use a dye box, use a passive Diabex with tons of headroom and you don't have a problem. And just make sure it doesn't happen if you don't want it to.

And even if you do want it to happen, maybe do it on a separate track, maybe split it just to be safe. 

Malcom: [00:30:28] Yeah, I would agree. Um, in general consumer or even pro-sumer interfaces and preamps don't clip well, uh, so I've got like a new style preamp here that I occasionally use for that if I'm looking for that.

Um, but otherwise it's not happening. Like I would never use my Apollo preamps to do that. Oh, no. Yeah. Fun fact, if you have an Apollo preamp, turn up the gain all the way with a guitar plugged in and it's like the grossest fuzz tone you've ever heard. 

Benedikt: [00:30:58] Yes. You can always abuse [00:31:00] your equipment like that on purpose.

Of course. That's why I say it's all about intention. If that's the sound you want by all means, do it, but maybe use a splitter or so in front of it and just record another version of it without the clipping, just to be safe, but definitely, yeah. 

Malcom: [00:31:15] Great, um, up next rung based for the job. That's a common one.

There's not often, there's always like six guitars in the room and then one base and nobody. And if it's like, you're at a studio where the producer, who's probably a guitarist, but the bass, it's probably not even that great of a base. Like it's like, they're, they're willing to spend thousands on a guitar, but bass from.

So, uh, if you can track down some options for bass guitars, before you go into a session, that's a great. Use of time. 

Benedikt: [00:31:45] Yes, absolutely. And I would say, I'd start by the way that you don't have to explore all the options, because I would start with like the basic tried and true things that always worked all across every genre, basically.

[00:32:00] So there are, of course, unless you are in a very neat niche thing where a certain style of instrument is required. If you start with. Either a P base or a J base, like a jazz bass or a precision bass, you're going to cover most of it already. Maybe you want to try, like something like a music man, like the Sterling bass or something like that.

Or maybe you want to go, if you're doing modern metal sort of thing, you want to have a five string or, uh, like the wall thing, wall, something like that. Exactly. Some. But usually I wouldn't go and try all the weird bases and sorts of types of basis that exist. I would start with one of these and you probably find something that works.

Like I could use a precision based or a chasse based on almost everything. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:32:48] Yeah. Just make sure it intonates and sounds great. You know, um, I've got a P bass on my wall and it works almost every time. It's great. Um, I think when you're choosing basis, you also need to [00:33:00] consider scale, length and tuning, uh, and make sure that you can actually play in tune out the tuning that you want to do.

Um, that's been actually going back to mini base real quick. That's one reason I end up using mini sometimes is that we're in a low tuning that the instruments that are available to us, aren't great at going to, um, so media-based lets us get there and still have that tuning stability. Yes. 

Benedikt: [00:33:21] Yeah, exactly.

For super low tunings, consider a five string or like all sorts of things. Um, that's a little outside of the usual stuff, so, but yeah. Yeah, totally agreed. Cool. Um, yeah. Wrong base for the job. I mean, it's obvious, uh, then. Wrong person for the job. That's an interesting one, too. And that can happen. It happens pretty often.

Actually, sometimes your rhythm guitar player is the better basis for it. 

Malcom: [00:33:53] Again, this goes back to it's all in the right hand and pretty much somebody in your band is going to hopefully have a monster right [00:34:00] hand, and you should take advantage of that because it will transform how 

Benedikt: [00:34:02] you record. So, yep, absolutely.

Sometimes it's the other way around. Sometimes the basis is really, really good. And like the rhythm guitarist has some timing issues or not. It's just inconsistent or it's not hitting hard enough. Sometimes if the bass player can play guitar, sometimes it's worth trying the other way around. But anyway, just figure out who is probably the best person to do it.

And if you can just leave your ego. Outside the, the studio or the jam space, because it's like, it doesn't help the record. And no one cares in the end who has played that bass. The one cares if it's middy, if it's the bass player, if it's the guitarist or the vocalist, it like, all that matters is what comes out of the speakers as always.

So, yeah, I know it's that hard. It's not easy for a lot of people to do, and everyone's passionate about the record and the band, and I totally get that. But have a conversation about it. And if you really feel like the bass player is not the best person to play bass in the studio, maybe try and have another person do it 

Malcom: [00:34:59] definitely [00:35:00] better 

Benedikt: [00:35:00] is better.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. So we skipped one thing here that I want to go to real quick, and this is not enough top end and mid range in a bass tone, we have an entire episode on that. So we don't have to say much about it. It's episode 12. So if you go to the self recording band.com/twelve. You'll find that episode or on your podcast app, just go to episode 12.

Um, it's called based on it's more than just low end. Um, and it's about this. So sometimes people think if they have a thick, big, low end, that's all they need, but they're lacking top in that mid range. Oftentimes that comes from using old strings. Sometimes it comes from like sometimes they dial back the top end on the base itself because they think it's like noisy or they, sometimes people don't realize that this stuff is actually can actually be useful.

Um, but when in doubt, leave that stuff in, we can always make a dollar and filter it out. But if it's not there, if it lacks the harmonic content, if it likes the top end, the clarity, there's only so [00:36:00] much you can do as a mixer. You can't bring back. What's never been there. So when in doubt, I I'd always track a brighter base.

Um, definitely. And, and sent that to the mixer. 

Malcom: [00:36:10] I agree with that so much. It's, uh, so much of that energy and punches is that top end and higher mid range stuff. Um, and that, that's a reason why pics get used so often in the studio. Actually is because it just adds that attack, which, which is so useful for us mixing it really lets us like, you know, lock it in with, uh, with a kick John Boris and airdrome actually, um, we can really blend those two off of that transient stuff, uh, and picks also help things be more consistent in general too.

Yeah. In 

Benedikt: [00:36:41] general. That being said, like, if you already know, you don't want to have like a bright or clear based on if you're doing some indie stuff where you want a really mellow, really thick, dull sounding bass or whatever, just as again, record a clean guy with all the mid range and top end and do it on a separate track with whatever amp settings you want or [00:37:00] filter it or do whatever just to be safe, include the clean, clear Dai.

And I always think about it in the way that. If you think about what a low piano note sounds like, the clarity you get on a piano, that's what your base should sound like most of the time. So I dunno. That's the closest thing I can, I can compare it to like a double degree, a deep note on a piano. That's basically the base sound.

I want the clarity I 

Malcom: [00:37:25] want. Yeah. And consistency like that as well. Um, where it sounds like that big, full thing. If each time you hit that key on a piano. Yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:37:34] exactly. All right, cool. That's it for base basically. 

Malcom: [00:37:38] Yep. Now we'll be doing guitars, which is going to have a lot of overlap with bass 

Benedikt: [00:37:43] is going to be a short one.

So clean Dai, same thing referenced on track. Plus the I, uh, yeah, great amp capture is always good of course, but just include the Dai to be safe. The app capture could, could be used, could also just serve as a reference. Um, [00:38:00] so both, both should be possible for most people don't only send to die because then you have to guess whatever guitar tone you want it.

So that's not good. 

Malcom: [00:38:07] Yeah, unless it is like, cause sometimes DEI is a tone that people go after. Um, so if that's like a, a J base into a D I really has a sound, I find the kind of thing. Um, yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:38:19] Guitar is really the case, I think, right? Yes. 

Malcom: [00:38:21] Yes, exactly. Yeah. W uh, you know, actually when I worked with spirit box, um, who I think we've talked about on this before, uh, They have backing tracks.

We were doing like a live recording session. Um, and, uh, they had like backing tracks going and stuff, and there was some clean parts. So he was playing like this crazy sort of stuff. And there's like a clean ambient thing going over top of it. And we did a pass through and that track played and I was like, Hm, Hey, Hey Mike, I think there's meant to be some amp model on this track because like the clean track just sounds like a DEI and he's like, no, that's kind of.

What we do in this genre, we just throw reverb on a DEI for the cleans. All right. There's, there's something new every day. 

[00:39:00] Benedikt: [00:39:01] I could totally see that. And sometimes I could also mention, like for, I don't know, funk or anything where you needed a clear attack and basically just a clean percussive sort of guitar sound.

DIA is a great thing because you have all the transients, all the punch, all the progressiveness. So yeah. I could see that. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't expect, I didn't expect it for it, but with the spirit box though, but yeah. 

Malcom: [00:39:25] Yep. Um, yeah, so important when you've got down here is wrong pick choice. Uh, really easy to overlook that, um, uh, Qatar pick transforms the attack of a guitar.

And again, that's something that's really, really great for a mixer to be able to use. And it's something we can't really change necessarily. We can't really change like how the harmonic harmonic transient of a guitar sounds once you've recorded it. That much. Um, so choosing the right pick makes a big difference.

Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:39:56] The choosing the right pick and holding it at the right angle as [00:40:00] well. Like hitting the string at the right angle. The, the, the, the combination of those two makes such a difference. And there's basically two, two angles that I, uh, or two perspectives, um, that I look at it. And it's the first one is how.

Precisely attackers or how scratchy, it sounds for lack of a better term. Like you could have, you could choose a pick and hold it in a way so that you have a really clear, sharp, short transient, especially with Palm mutes or like leads or anything with a clear attack. Um, not so much like with open chords, but like with Palm mutes or single notes, stuff like that, or you could have a longer sort of attack or more scratchy attack that just.

I don't know how to describe it, but you know, the sound of like scratching along the string. If, when Palm mutes do the thing, you know what I mean? Yeah. So that's, that can be desired or not. And it's the result of pick choice and the angle you hold it basically. And how hard you hit also. But like this can really [00:41:00] be manipulated by, by choosing the right pig and or changed.

And the second perspective is sometimes you have, especially with leads, you get weird. Squeaky noises, um, that are pretty annoying that sometimes you don't hear them right away, but once you notice it, you can't unhear it and it's like really bothering you and you can't get rid of those. Squeaks and squeals and stuff that are, that shouldn't be in there.

And that is oftentimes also the result of picking the wrong pick. Like one pick could do that and another pick a totally get rid of all this or help you get rid of all this. 

Malcom: [00:41:36] Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's really important. Uh, the thickness of the pic will also affect how consistent you play. So keep that in mind.

Oh yeah. Um, it's a reason that I gravitate to thicker picks. I find that they are generally more dynamically consistent. Um, but that said there's always a time and a place for a soft topic. 

Benedikt: [00:41:53] Yeah. Yeah. That's a good thing. You bring that up because most people, when, when, when we talk about pick choice, they think of different [00:42:00] thicknesses probably.

And they have their model of pick that to just like, but we're talking material, uh, yeah, we talk in thickness, but we also talk material and shape of the pig. So you could have it like a jazz pick. You could have the standard cortex you could have. There are different shapes and it all matters. So it's the shape, it's the material.

And it's the thickness. So don't just use whatever you like and then very like, uh, use varying thicknesses, or just tried different picks, completely different picks shapes and materials. 

Malcom: [00:42:27] Well, yeah, it's good to have a little container of options sitting nearby and always have a green, a green toward tech sand.

That's like tried and true the most commonly successful one. Um, not always, but it definitely seems to win the most. And I think like most engineers would agree. 

Benedikt: [00:42:43] Yeah. Yeah. So, so to me, the three most used are the green tore techs. The black jazz pick, like not the red one, but the black one, the black one.

Yeah. I dunno what it's called Chaz three or something black. I think so that, and it's a yellow [00:43:00] or like bright yellow ish. 

Malcom: [00:43:02] Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like translucent a little bit. Yes. I don't know. That's funny. I just said the exact same story, uh, in the same order. Um, now that. Jazz Baker, the oversized one.

That's. So the one that's like the size of a normal pick or the tiny one? Uh, 

Benedikt: [00:43:17] no, the it's I think it's a little bigger than it's a little smaller than a normal pig, but it's I think bigger. Yeah. And then the red one and the tiny one. Yeah, not the tiny one. That black one is a little bigger. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:43:29] Cool. Yes.

Um, there you go. Try it out. Those are the three ones you need. I'm going to leave this next note to you. Two leading, cause I'm, I'm curious. I want to, I want to hear what you have to say about it. 

Benedikt: [00:43:39] Okay. So the alternate picking a downstroke, so up and down, or just down strokes, especially for Palm Utes and heavy chucks.

So what I, what I mean by that is often when I get stuff from people, sometimes they played. A Palm you'd part. That's actually not too far fast to pull it off with down strokes only, [00:44:00] but for some reason they just did what was easier probably or felt more natural. And they went for the up and down strokes and that's sometimes, or oftentimes sounds weaker, more inconsistent and also causes timing issues.

So if you playing like eight notes, for example, um, and you only play down strokes, chances are each of the strokes will be. Pretty much the same, um, yeah, intensity the same volume and like have the same attack. You will pretty much be able to nail the timing. And if you go up and down, it might feel easier.

But it's often has this weird shuffle to it when it's not supposed to. And it has weird, um, inconsistent attack. And, um, I dunno, it's just something people don't think about. I think they think it sounds the same, but it totally doesn't so yeah, whenever you can, I would do down strokes unless it's really too fast.

Malcom: [00:44:55] Dynamics change, uh, attack changes, uh, timing changes. Uh, so [00:45:00] it's definitely, uh, I don't want to say that you should never pick because obviously there's tons of like every song is going to have a spot probably, but, uh, I think what we're saying is to default to try and get out there, um, and that's gonna give you more often than not, that's going to be a better choice.

So we're kind of giving you like the, in general and for this. 

Benedikt: [00:45:19] Yeah, totally. Okay. So the next one I'm gonna, um, Gift to you, but basically because you had a conversation about this, the ringing strings and what to do about it, because I have to be honest, it doesn't bother me as often as it seems to bother other people.

So I don't use a fret rep every single time and I don't do it. I will mute strings whenever something bothers me. So we're talking about ringing strings that are not supposed to be there, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts because I do, I don't do much in that regard unless it's really bothering me or like a person con con constantly hits the string.

That's just not supposed to be in the court. I'll. Take it away [00:46:00] or whatever, but there are people who use, always use fret reps and try to make sure nothing's ringing. And what's your take on that? 

Malcom: [00:46:07] Yeah. Um, I don't default to it. I kind of, again, if I hear it, I've got the pit, the little piece of paper towel handy to like slide under the strings and mute them out or whatever.

And then, yeah, I'm always beside the guitar. So I'm reaching over and beginning the string if I need to. So it's not like an always thing. I don't have something around the nut, like some people do and stuff. Um, but that said, I never regret it. When I'm mixing and, and I'm like doing a part that I know that we did that too.

I'm like, dang, this sounds really good and clean. I'm stoked. We did that. So, uh, it's something that I'm like, maybe I should do more of this because it's, it's really awesome. Being able to. Really like limit or, or even distort more, um, like a guitar part without bringing out anything negative. It's just like embracing, like we, all we have is good.

I like that. Um, it's kinda like have being able to have a drum shell without symbol bleed. You can really mangle it into something [00:47:00] unique and cool in that situation because it's alone. Um, that's why it jumps. Apples can be so powerful. For example. So it's kind of similar. If we eliminate these extra noises again, it gives me more power to fuck shit 

Benedikt: [00:47:11] up.

Absolutely. Yeah. Agreed. Um, maybe I should do it more as well. That's why I was asking. I just. It doesn't, it doesn't bother me as much, I guess. I really don't like it. Of course, if there is a string that just doesn't belong to the chord, we were playing, we need to do something about that. But the noises that a guitar makes, if you don't use the strings, like on the hat of the guitar, for example, like I don't use that always, but maybe I should do more often just to get a cleaner sound.

It's, it's kind of a mess, a must or like a recommendation for the really heavy stuff. If you want to get it really clean. Sounding not clean. Like if you want to record heavy distorted guitars, obviously button. So nothing guitars, but if you want that very, very defined. Um, yeah, sort of heavy sound [00:48:00] so that that's clean in the sense that as you sat, there's only stuff in it that belongs there.

It's hard to describe. That's 

Malcom: [00:48:05] actually a good point to bring up is that the heavier you're going, the more clean you need your recording to be. Um, cause there's, there's no noise to signal to noise ratio. Really? It's all just noise. It's all loud. Um, so that the little tiny scuffs of an unintentional string.

Get brought up in volume so much by like distorting an app heavily. Um, so that's, that's why, uh, again, it, it really always depends. So trust your ears on that. Um, and I'm more, so what I'm talking about when I'm talking about string medium is muting. Like the, if they're playing a power chord on the top three strings muting the ones under it.

So their hands doesn't accidentally pluck those every once in a while. Um, and there's almost just, it speeds up tracking. We don't have to even worry about. If they strung too far, it's not going to ruin the take anymore. So that's nice. Yeah, 

Benedikt: [00:48:55] totally. Then, um, pick a tech cut off. What I meant by that [00:49:00] is I think I put that in there, but like if I did what I meant by that is, and that's, that's something I, I encounter pretty often is that when people edit their stuff themselves, or even if they just cut the away, the, the silence before the song or something, sometimes they cut into the first.

Attack like the first note. And if they edit guitars, they do it throughout the song multiple times, which is really bad. And that is because. If you look at, maybe if you look at a DEI, the first thing you see or the biggest thing you see, and you think that's the transient, it's not actually the transient, it's already the note that you see that has the most energy.

And right before that, like a couple of minutes or seconds before that is the actual pick attack. And you don't really see that on a DEI. You see the transients or the, the cores or the, the, um, yeah, the individual hits you'll see them pretty well on a Dai, but you don't actually see the pick attack. And you need to either leave enough, like other need enough, leave enough space before those cuts those notes.

Or, um, [00:50:00] you do some sort of use some sort of trick to make the pick attack visible. And you can do that by distorting. The track, like putting an Epsom on and then filtering out the low end below one kilohertz or so then printing. So you see the wave form and use that as a guide to edit your dyes and that what you will see is that on that track with the distortion.

Yeah. And with the low cut on that, the actual pick attack, the scratchy pick attack thing will be a bit before the thing you see on the GI track. And that's where you want to. Cut and edit, and you don't want to cut into the guitar. So that's just a little help here. Like you can do it without that trick, if, you know, like if you just get some experience, but just know that you absolutely don't want to accidentally cut into the pick attack.

Malcom: [00:50:46] Yeah. It's a, that's again, just another experience thing. And you learn to kind of be able to just see what you're actually meant to be looking at, but it is deceiving. Until you figure that out. Yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:50:56] And by the way, if you're not editing yourself at all and just [00:51:00] sending the whole raw thing, don't like leave a couple of bars of space before the first note.

Like there's no reason to cut, like to export from. Bar one, beat one bar, one of the song, like you can have as many bars as you want before the song, basically just, uh, like, so some people do that for whatever reason, but there's no need to do that. Just include two bars of silence to be safe. Yeah, yeah.

Malcom: [00:51:24] And a longer fade out as well. Then you think? Yes. Yes. Same. Yep. Um, I don't think we need to spend time on this next thing, because we already said it, but let's just say it, uh, the wrong guitar for the job. This is also just as common or maybe more common than even having the wrong base for the job. Um, guitarists are so preferential preferential to their live guitar, but the live guitar is probably got steroid frets and is terrible in the studio.

So, uh, you have some guitar options, um, and different pickup options, you know, uh, sometimes single coils are exactly what you need. Sometimes some are sometimes active pickups could be the sound you [00:52:00] need. Um, and then wrong person for the job, of course is still relevant. Uh, wrong amp for the job is a real thing too.

But if you're giving us a DEI, that's why, again, the da is so important because we don't expect you to have a wall of different vintage marshals and stuff. Th the shootout and figure out while you're in the studio. So if you give us a Dai, a mixer can do that for you. Oh yeah. 

Benedikt: [00:52:23] Agreed. You know what I think.

Despite what we said at the beginning, we should maybe do a third part of the series because we are close to an hour with this episode and I don't feel we should rush it a treat. Yeah, we should. You shouldn't treat vocals as an afterthought that we just burned through real quick, because it's just so important and so much that can go wrong.

Let's do a dedicated episode on 

Malcom: [00:52:46] vocals. Yeah. And we, we do have keys to cover, although that will be very quick. So yeah, we'll, we'll wrap those up into parts three. 

Benedikt: [00:52:54] Yes. It's better for, for, for you as a listener. If we do that. So, sorry. Uh, we said [00:53:00] we were going to do, but it's going to be three. And I think this is probably to be honest, this is probably one of the most helpful, full series of, um, episodes that we've did so far.

They can cover so much in these three episodes. It's it's pretty cool. So stoked. Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:53:16] I, uh, I'm so excited to have all three of these out because whenever somebody starts a project, it'll be like, Listen to these three in order and make notes like the most important thing you could do before you go into the studio.

Yes. 

Benedikt: [00:53:28] So one more thing before we wrap it up here is, or actually two more things as always. I love to see you in our Facebook community, or we love we'd love to see you in our Facebook community. So if you go to the self recording band.com/community, You will be forwarded, like to redirect it to the Facebook community and you can join that.

It's free. It's a great place to hang, to ask questions, to, um, get feedback on the stuff you're working on. China's there. That's the [00:54:00] one thing that I wanted to say. And the other thing that I wanted to say is as last episode, I already mentioned it. We have a gear guide. It's like the essential it's called the essential, the, our recording gear guide.

And, um, you get it. If you go to the self recording band.com/gear guide. And it like, it's a great addition. That's what I wanted to say to this episode, because we covered the bare minimum requirements that you have to do basically. And this gear guide covers the minimum requirements of stuff you need to get in order to record yourself.

So it covers microphones interfaces. Computers, I think like all, all sorts of things. Um, it's free. Download it. The self recording band.com/gear guide, and pair this with this three part series of episodes. And you're off to a great start. I 

Malcom: [00:54:46] think. Definitely. Definitely. All right. Well, we'll be back with some more next week.

Exactly. 

Benedikt: [00:54:53] See you. Bye. Thanks for listening. Bye [00:55:00] .