#7: MIDI Drums Or “Real Drums” – What’s The Better Option For Your Record?

Not sure whether you should record your drum kit, or program MIDI drums for your record?

Are you afraid MIDI drums will sound fake? Wondering if you can really achieve great results recording the "real" thing? We help you see clearer and talk about when and why to choose each of these options.

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Automatic Episode Transcript — Please excuse any errors, not reviewed for accuracy (click for full transcript)

MIDI Drums Or "Real Drums" - What's The Better Option For Your Record?

Malcom: [00:00:00] The drum recording kind of like sets the stage for the entire production. So if you're trying to have a really modern professional sounded album and your drums aren't on that level, it is just kind of doomed. 

Benedikt: [00:00:16] This is the self recording band podcast, the show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are, DIY stuff.

Let's go.

Hello and welcome to. Another episode of the self recording band podcast. My name is Benedict. I am your host and I'm here with my cohost Malcolm Owen-Flood. How are you Malcolm? I'm 

Malcom: [00:00:39] great. I'm stoked to be here 

Benedikt: [00:00:40] again. Yeah. So great to have you every week. It's just, it's amazing to have this conversations because I learn a lot myself.

Every time we talk about stuff and I, I think about stuff differently than I usually do in my day to day, you know? So. Uh, it's fun. 

Malcom: [00:00:57] I, uh, I also realized that sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about and that I pronounced Bon Iver's name wrong on an earlier podcast. I still don't know how to say it, but I had a client reach out to me and be like, Hey, that's not correct.

I was like, Oh, well, 

Benedikt: [00:01:09] yeah. Really? What did he say? Did you just say, Bon Iver. 

Malcom: [00:01:12] Uh, I think I said  and now I'm totally blanking on what he told me it was. Um, he actually sent me like a linked to some website that they showed how it was pronounced, but you know, you know, he's world famous. People know who I'm talking about.

Doesn't matter. 

Benedikt: [00:01:27] Exactly. Yeah. But the funny thing is I really, sometimes when we talk about those things, uh, at the beginning, I think I totally know what I'm going to be talking about and it's crystal clear. But then once we get into it, I sometimes. Rethink, um, about stuff. And I sometimes think about stuff differently and I, uh, it helps me actually.

Understand my job better every day and the people I work with better. And it's like just a different perspective and it, yeah. I don't know. It's just, it doesn't hurt. It's a, it's a great fun thing to do. 

Malcom: [00:01:59] So I used to teach guitar way back when and uh, I got a lot better at guitar from teaching it. Yeah, it was ages.

I don't play anymore, but 

Benedikt: [00:02:09] yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's the same thing. I'm sure you got better doing that. Yeah. I would be, I would definitely be better if I. Yeah, I just needed to play. I love every minute of practice would be, would be great because I don't actually play as much anymore, which is a shame.

But anyway, that's another topic. Um, like if you had as much fun listening to those episodes as we had recording them, uh, if you enjoying this, the, there is. At 10 step guide to successful Doy recording, uh, on the self recording band.com, which is a, the website where you also find this podcast. So. If you're enjoying this, if you enjoy the content of the previous episodes and you want a kind of intro, like an step-by-step, um, complete like introduction to this whole topic, uh, you want to see what's, what's in Wharf, what's what the steps are.

Just go to the self recording band.com/ten step guide and download that guide. It's free. Uh, it's a PDF. It's pretty long a, it's almost like a little ebook thing, not really, but a pretty long PDF, pretty extensive guide, and it will take you from start to finish the whole production process. And after that, I'm pretty sure you have a pretty clear picture of what to do, what to focus on, how to get started.

So go to the set of recording band.com/ten step guide and download that free guide there. All right. Um, today's topic is the first off. A little serious that we're doing here. And it's on the topic of programming drums, mini drums. And today we want to start with talking about which approach is actually the best for your project.

Real drums or mini drums. So what are some situations that you could think of where it would be. Actually better to program drums then to record real drums. 

Malcom: [00:04:05] Sadly, most situations, if I'm modest and that, that, that's kind of like ironic in a way. Cause I, I never really ended up programming drums very rarely.

I'm, I'm always recording live drums, um, on my dad's always did live drums. Well. Yeah, pretty much. Uh, but I have been finding that I'm starting to think that people should be, uh, programming drums, especially with the, some of the mixes and mastering jobs that come in for me to work on that I didn't engineer.

Um, there's, there's some times red flags, and we've mentioned some of these on previous episodes. Uh. Where people don't really know how to record a good drum. Uh, getting a drum recording or the drummer just isn't capable of performing to the level that is required to get a good drum recording. But some super, I think, relatable for people starting to note sit circumstances like the main one would just be not having the gear to record drums or the space to record drums.

Benedikt: [00:05:06] Yeah, that's the obvious ones. Um, and absolutely like if you, if you are in a space where you cannot be super loud, or if you just the space, this doesn't sound very good, or you just don't have enough inputs to record drums properly in your interface, you have two options. You can go record somewhere else, or you can use many drums.

And. So you just have to decide what's, what's better for, in your case, if you have a great studio nearby, you might go there, record drums, if not, media drums is a totally viable option, and we get into why that is and how to actually make it sound good. That's why we're doing serious, but we just want to let you know that.

It's an option you should consider. And, uh, like if you have to travel far to get to decent rum room or whatever, or if you just have a very limited budget, like virtual drums are not that expensive. Learning how to programs program is not that hard. Just take some time and, um, you might learn something along the way while you do that.

By the way, you might learn something about arrangement or something about how your actual drum playing like should sound like, and it's worth trying it. 

Malcom: [00:06:12] Absolutely. It sounds really good. Like, I hate to say I love recording real drums, but program drums can sound just awesome. Um, 

Benedikt: [00:06:22] and 

Malcom: [00:06:23] to me, uh, the drum recording kind of like sets the stage for the entire production.

So if you're trying to have a really modern. Professional sounding album and your drums aren't on that level, it's just kind of doomed. Um, so using program drums is just like the easiest way to check that box and know that you're going to have good, really solid sounding drums. Definitely consider it. I would almost say you should just try it.

Even if you plan to record drums, uh, your, your pre-pro should just have program drums and then you have those sitting there as an option. 

Benedikt: [00:06:55] Yeah. I, I actually, I actually encourage bands to do kind of a, an AB test. Try if they have the option to record real drums, then I just tell them, do both and see and be honest and see what sounds better.

I had that, um, a band that I just mixed last week and the P they recorded. It's a local band here. And they, uh, they wanted to record real drums, but they also didn't have like any ego issues or whatever with the media drums. They just thought we should try recording real drums and see if it sounds good.

And, but they were asking me, uh, what, what would I think if they should do media? And I said, just do both. Try and see what works better. And they tried it and they came, they quickly came to the conclusion that their real drums would never sound. Like, not at all sound, uh, as good as the ones that they programmed.

And so they just made the logical decision and said, okay, well, if that's what sounds so much better than we just go with the, with the meeting rooms. And their drummer was totally great with that. And because he wanted to do what's best for the record. And that's the thing, um, that you have to make sure that it's the case because, uh, yeah, like the drummer has to be on board, I guess.

And you have to be okay with that. Uh, but it's. I would always think in terms of what serves the record and what gets you to the goal that you want to be at. And nobody cares if it's real drums on me to drums or whatever. All people who listen to your record care about is, is it a great song or not? And it might sound better and create better, like have a bigger impact and connects with people more if it just sounds great.

And, uh, so yeah. 

Malcom: [00:08:34] Yeah. I think that's like dead on. Like ask yourself, ask the band half the conversation of what is the goal of the recording. Um, is it to have like a radio ready commercial sounding polished song? Cause if it is, you're either going to have to be a fantastic world-class drum engineer with world-class drummer.

You know, world-class room essentially, uh, or use program drums, right? Like if you want it to sound that certain way, like that's just what it takes. It takes like this perfect storm of talent and expertise and acoustics, and most of the time that's not available on a indie budget. So. If that's your goal, I think that's when you want to start considering programming the drums, the benefits are going to be great for you.

Um, you know, your budget is going to be considerably improved and it's also setting a really solid foundation for everybody else to record on. Um, you don't have to worry about sloppy performances and trying to record guitars to it or anything like that, right? Yeah. So I think just getting really honest with yourself, asking what your desired goal is for that is going to answer the question in most cases, yes, there's, there's other variables that we're going to cover here, but just think about where you imagine your music being heard and what you imagined it being heard with.

Like, is there a band that you kind of idolize and if their song played and then your song came on, how, how do you get it to sound that, um, so that your song can compete with that, that band, you're kind of modeling. 

Benedikt: [00:10:08] Absolutely. It depends on your goal and it depends. Like probably most of your favorite records.

It's not for everybody, but like for most people, most of the favorite records are, as Malcolm said, recorded in a way that you can't replicate in your practice space. But there sample libraries out there these days, they are those. It's not like people need to understand. I think many people don't know that these are actually real drums recorded in the real room with microphones and all that.

It's like it's not. Some. Drums since or whatever. That sounds weird and artificial, like it's actual people hitting actual drums in a great sounding room recorded with fantastic gear. Just the way great records are made. And they capture that and put it into this virtual drum kit thing. And all you do is you program whatever the drummer would play and it triggers this instrument and then it plays back the samples that have been recorded real and so, and those things have gotten so good that.

It's essentially the, the, you get the sound that crazy cool people made in a crazy cool room. Um, and you, you probably won't beat that at home. And so it depends on your goal and you have to, you have to realize that that's, if you want to compete with, with certain records, then there's probably no way around that.

Also, I think that those are the drums and that's also something Mark com touched on before and they're like. Drums are kind of that giveaway for an amateur production for me, like you can always, if you have a crappy guitar tone, you can almost always kind of get away with it. Like not really, but you can't always say like it's character, it's vibe, you know?

It's like a mid rangy whatever. If you have a very boxy guitar tone or whatever, you can always say it's on purpose. Like this mid range vintage, whatever tone or like. But if the drums sound good, you can kind of get away with it. But, um, if the drums sound crappy, if there's just some weak, if they like punch, if they're tuned weirdly, like there's sound small, like that's, that's almost always an instant.

Like I instantly know that it's a DIY production and it's an amateur production. If the drum sound like that. So, and you want to, you probably don't want to be sounding like that. That said. If that's your vibe, like if you are not competing with or trying to compete with bands like that. And if your idols are not bands with the produced big records with big budgets, if your favorite pants sound like, um, like garage, uh, I dunno, recordings, rehearsal, room recordings, DIY, raw type of stuff.

Then. It might be tricky to replicate that with middy. It can be done, but then it might be, the better option might be to record real drums. So it's, it depends on your goals and also on, um, the vibe you're going for. I guess that's the second analysis here, right? 

Malcom: [00:12:59] Yep. Yeah, absolutely. I just wanted to add one quick thing back to, uh.

The initial counter argument of which, which way to go. Um, it's worth noting because a lot of people don't even realize this when they're starting out, but most drum performances are edited, edited after they're played. Um, and that's like out an art form in itself and knowing how to do a good job of editing drums, and it's something you have to learn and spend a lot of time to learn.

Um, so if you don't have that skillset. You told they shouldn't go recording live drums on your own. Um, in my opinion, great point. Cause they, you really need those drums to be tight. And normally it takes the helping hand of a skilled engineer to get it to that point. Um, I mean you could always record the drums and then hire somebody to edit it before you go onto recording bass or guitar or whatever.

But I just wanted to point that out that there's a step that exists when you're recording live drums called editing that isn't necessary when you're doing  because a, your dog helps you out with the timing. 

Benedikt: [00:13:56] Yes, so much. And we got into that how to actually make that still sound human, because that's a big concern that people have, but it can be done.

Absolutely. Uh, and we've got into that in a future episode. Um, but I will actually tell you. Things and the little tricks and tips that you can implement to, to make your program drums sound like it's played. It's been played by a human, but properly played in properly or just properly played, because that's also the goal of editing.

People mistake that sometimes they think the goal of editing is to make it like absolutely accurate to the grit, but that's not really the case. It's just. Really good editing means preserving the vibe, the feel like the impact of the performance, the sound, but make it as tight as it needs to be to properly work.

So you're getting rid of anything that takes the attention away from the essential, like the art and the song, and you, you make it like just a flawless, great performance that does not necessarily mean 100% of the grit.  that does just, Oh, I just wanted to say that because people are afraid of both media and edited drums oftentimes.

Yeah. But yeah, you don't have to be afraid of any of those. So, uh, it's just part of the process and most really great sounding records are, um, are edited. That's the fact. That's Malcolm's totally right here. All right. And then as I said, the vibe is another one. Um, if you, there are certain genres that even require you to have a really kind of artificial sounding a drum sound or performance.

Like there are modern, modern metal, a genre sub genres that you probably. You, you can't even get there without samples. Like to that aesthetic, you know, it's not even possible. And sometimes it's funny because sometimes people come to me and say, we want a very organic, um, raw drum sound, just like that band.

And then I listened to that band and it's 100% samples all over the place, or it's programmed or whatever. I instantly know. And it's so funny because people tend to. It seems like people perceive that differently or people say organic, but they mean, but what they mean is very, very punchy and programs sometimes.

So, um, you might not know that, but there are certain genres or a certain, like not only in metal, but I, I'm talking mainly about metal here and now, um, where you just can't get this aesthetic and this, this sound that the genre is known for without samples. And. You can record real drums and then replace them with samples or add samples to the real drums, or you can just program them right away.

But if you're going to use samples any way to get to this, to this aesthetic, it's oftentimes probably easier to just start with choosing the right samples and just program stuff. 

Malcom: [00:16:43] Yeah. And one more little twist to that is that you could actually start with samples and, or, and programming and then add some real elements to it.

Like, uh, add live symbols, um, which requires way last gear, right? You only need a couple of weeks to pull that off. You don't necessarily have to have 18 mikes do a whole drum kit, top and bottom snares and all that, you know. Um. Sure. So there, there is some hybrids here, and we're not really getting into that right now, but it's worth knowing that you can kind of blur these lines a little bit.

Benedikt: [00:17:14] Yeah. And to answer the initial question, once again, um, one scenario where it might be better to actually record real drums is whenever you. And you have to be careful with that. That's why I'm why I told the story about bands telling me they want organic and Robert, what they actual mean was they, they want huge, punchy and obviously programmed or sampled, but sometimes there might be the real situation where people really might want to have a raw, organic sounding thing and depending on how far you will, you want to get there.

It might be better than to record rooms, but only if you can really like play the way you want to and that you want it to sound. But yeah, if you. I know I'm working in punk rock a lot, a lot, and some of the punk and indie stuff. Drums don't always need to be really huge and larger than life and punchy and stuff.

Sometimes it's actually cool to have it sound like it was recorded with a smaller setup in a smaller room, like it was recorded, like some of them. It's cool to like here. What it sounds like if you were in the room with the band, like a small energetic live punk show or something, and that can work really well with live drums, but you have to know what you're doing.

Um, you have to play properly still. Uh, but I can see scenarios where it's kinda hard to get that with mini drums. Yes. So that might be that, but it's, it's really actually hard to think about stuff like that. So it's because I would say most of the time. Even with some of the organic sounding stuff, it's easier to get a great sounding record with the media still.

So be very careful with that. 

Malcom: [00:19:03] Yeah. Like, like I said earlier, I primarily record live drums with the productions I've been working on. I'm generally, I'm pretty lucky to have good drummers. Um, and, and I, I know what I'm doing, um, when it comes to tech and drums and stuff like that. So I guess I'm equipped.

To do that. Um, and that's kind of the key defining point is that I did a lot of terrible sounding drum recordings to get to this point. Um, so you don't want your band to be the Guinea pig that results in this terrible drum recording, right? So that's why we're telling you not to. We're not telling you, not you, but we're telling you to consider not.

Um, and because it's, we think you getting a good product is more important than you learning how to. Tech drums, um, and, and put years into becoming a qualified engineer that can handle that. There's, there's definitely a time and a place for it. You know, I do some live off the floor stuff and that's obviously going to lend itself to a alive drum kit, although I will say that I've done it.

Where the drummer was on an electronic kit. So pretty much programming themselves via plane and electronic kit, which is a cool way to go about it cause you can still get in there and edit it however you want or change the sounds and no bleed. Um, so it's kind of the best of both worlds. So if you've got an electronic kit available, you could experiment with that.

But we're, we're trying to put ourselves in your shoes. If you're a listener to this and you're wanting to record yourself. Programming makes a wacky sense. 

Benedikt: [00:20:27] Yes. Um, 

Malcom: [00:20:29] I don't, I don't know if we already even covered budget, but it's just like hugely going to save you a mountain of money going down this road as well.

Um, I mean, there's, there's no. Counting how many records have programmed drums on them these days. Like that's the conversation is out the window. And I used to be an argument where that they sounded worse. Um, and you know, I think they do sound a little different maybe in some aspects, but, uh, they sound good and they are tried and true on the pop charts.

Benedikt: [00:20:59] Yes. And it totally depends on like the programming. You can tell if somebody knows how to program drums or not, and it, and it depends on the library you choose, but the stuff that's out there today, like if you're using, I don't know, superior drummer, the current version of that, or if you use like the room sound.

Um, sample libraries that I use a lot. Those are so meticulously sampled and engineered and so great like you, like if you're not in our world from like day in, day out, it's probably hard to imagine how many moving parts there are and how many, like what, what goes into creating such a drum tone. Malcolm talked about the, the tech, the tech and drums, um, side of the things.

That's also a huge one. Like if you are. Um, if you are not really good or experienced with like rum tuning, setting up the drum kit, well, choosing the right heads, the right drum skins, um, if you don't have a collection of like great symbols that to choose from, if you don't have, like you might have just one snare that you've always used for the past 10 years and that's just all you have and you don't even know how great it would be to use a difference in the air for that song or whatever.

There's so many things you can do in a proper studio that what we can do when we produce records. And so that you just. Can't easily do on your own. So we're not telling you that program drums are always better, and we obviously, as Malcolm said, we record real drums all the time, and we love to do that.

It's actually my favorite part of recording, but it's only because we've been doing it for quite a while. We know what we're doing. We have the options, we have the rooms, we have the mikes, we have the drum kits. Most of the time we have decent drummers, but starting out, it was. For me it was the same. It was totally different like than it was now.

It was the same as Malcolm described. I, I recorded whatever I had in whatever room I was in and it sounded terrible, of course, and it sounded, it didn't never sounded as good as if I had just programmed it. So yeah, at least at least consider it. Um, but if you know what you're doing, if you have an awesome drummer and the drummer is the biggest part here, obviously, like that's really the biggest thing.

If you have an awesome drummer, and if you have like something that you actually want to capture because it's just so great when you stand in front of it, um, then yeah, do it and just do a test, see what sounds best like. Yeah, that's all I can say here. Test it and be honest to yourself. And that leads us to the next point on our list here, which is don't let your ego or the drummer's ego get in the way there because, um, so we had to go, we have the why, the vibe you were going forward.

We have the gear in the room. Next thing is the psychology and also the stuff that you can learn. From doing it that way. So if you're open to try program prompts to try middy and don't let your ego get in the way, you might actually gain a love. A lot of it you get, but actually grow doing that, you might actually learn a lot from it because you might find that.

The way you programmed drums, you might come up with creative stuff that you wouldn't have thought about like you, you hear things better or in a more clear away you, it might even inspire creativity. It might inspire your drummer to try different things when you play live. And you might learn a little bit about what a great drum recording actually should sound like.

So when you, next time when you try to record your drums, you have kind of a reference. That's also a huge one if you've ever listened to a really well. Recorded drum sample. Like if you can compare your snare drum to snare drum sample, there will be probably the difference. But the more often you listen to those good samples that are decently recorded rums, you kind of, your brain starts to learn.

And remember what that actually sounds like. And then whenever you hear a real drum, you instantly know, Oh, uh, that that's kind of like muddy or too bright or ringing or too dad or whatever, and it's, it gets easier and easier to actually get real drum tones once you are used to proper drum tones using a sample library.

Malcom: [00:25:04] Yeah. It's going to train your ear. 

Benedikt: [00:25:05] Yeah. 

Malcom: [00:25:06] Yup. Now to be the devil's advocate. If you want to become a, say you're the drummer of the band that's listening to this and you are dead set on actually recording live drums, there is no better way to learn. Uh, they had to be a better drummer than jumping into the studio and having to play to that level.

Um, it's like an instant feedback loop of just hearing yourself against the click or the backing tracks and realizing what needs to be improved on. Um, you'll, you'll never be so close to a metronome as you will be in the studio. It's like every time I have a band and the drummer leaves, like significantly better than when they walked in.

And, uh, that there's no other way to improve at that. Then recording yourself, um, or, or recording, not necessarily yourself, but, uh. So if that's the route you want to go down, that's totally fine, but you got to kind of figure out a way to get that practice in ahead of actually cutting your album. Um, you need to be talented and experienced a studio drummer before you record your tracks.

Cause the first time you do it, it's going to be pretty rough and no amount of editing is going to turn it into what you want it to be. 

Benedikt: [00:26:21] Yeah, absolutely. I have a blog post. Oh, on my website, that's about, um, how your, it's called, what your performance does to your drum sound. Because many drummers are not aware before they entered the studio, what it actually takes to play the way you should play when you were in the studio recording.

And, um, and this video is just a quick screen cap video of me showing an AB example of a common mistake that many drummers make and how, like. Even if you have, if you have great timing and great feel, you can still make mistakes. You can like the symbol to shell balance is a big thing here. If for example, you can, there are a lot of drummers who play the cymbals very loud and the shells very quietly, which can be problematic and you don't know that until you record.

So yes, recording makes you better. And you go, you can find that article on my website and the self recording bent.com if you go to blog, you'll find it. It's called a what? Your performance does your drum sound? Um. I put the link in the show. Read that. Yeah. I put the link in the show notes and a, there's a little video that you can actually hear the difference between, I have a good and the bad example in this video, so you can, you can, uh, listen to what I mean.

Um, so yes, recording drums and, and preparing for recording drums will make you a better drummer. But at the same time, as Malcolm said, you probably don't want to be the Guinea pig, like on your own record. Like. You can always do that on the side and you can do the test. As we, as we said a couple of times, you can try it on your own and you can program and you will quickly find out the real benefits and you can transfer that knowledge to your playing as well.

Because once you found out what you can do with a snare that has no a little bleed on it. Uh, on the microphone. Once you finally find out what that enables you to do, do, you'll start to realize why it's necessary to play a certain way as soon as the microphone is on the kid. And yeah, stuff like that. So, yeah, prepare yourself for recording.

Never stopped practicing that. But, um, if you're starting out recording, consider starting with media and comparing that to your raw recordings. 

Malcom: [00:28:31] Absolutely. I think that sums it up pretty good. 

Benedikt: [00:28:33] Cool. And the, yeah, the ego is saying, do you guys have anything to add there? I just mentioned in really quickly, but, um, I don't know if there's any tactics or things you can give people.

Um, that makes it easier because I know that's a tough one and I don't even 

Malcom: [00:28:47] check people for years. Tough. I mean, I've, uh, like you said, you kind of do both and compare. And I, I heard that, um, I was told. From a pretty reputable source. I'd say that, uh, that the, is Nickelback a big band over in Germany. 

Benedikt: [00:29:01] Yeah, it is.

I mean, people make fun of them a lot. I don't know if 

Malcom: [00:29:04] they're made fun of worldwide, but they're hugely successful. So what can we say 

Benedikt: [00:29:08] those fans where nobody would ever admit that they listened to Nickelback. But yet they are like number one with every 

Malcom: [00:29:13] ambulance and thousands show up to their show.

Yeah. Uh, but I heard that they did, uh, exactly what you're saying. So they, they superior drummer is a program for programming drums, by the way. Great one. Um, they. Programmed the drums and record the whole album to that. And then at the end they try and go cut a drum track, and then if they can beat it, they'll use the live drums.

If they can't beat it, they'll use the studio or the program drums, and that's just it. Like it takes the ego out of it. It's okay. Which one sounds better. 

Benedikt: [00:29:41] Yeah, 

Malcom: [00:29:42] there's, Oh, there's one huge thing we forgot to mention too, why program drums are so cool, and it's that you can change the drums as you record.

Um, so generally when you're recording, you start with drums and if you lay down a live drum recording, what you laid down is the beat. That's kind of pretty much what you're stuck with. You can do some editing stuff. But not a lot. Um, I know you're thinking about samples that are Benny, but, uh, but if you program it, you can change everything so you can change the kick pattern to match the guitar riff a little differently.

Um, you know, you could change the guitar riff and then change the drums to match that new riff. You know, you can really. Just adjust and adapt on the fly. Um, which is a lot harder to do with live drum recordings. Um, so for, for somebody that's trying to kind of write and develop the songs as you're recording, that's, that's worth its weight in gold, I think.

Benedikt: [00:30:33] Oh, yes. So much. Absolutely. So glad you mentioned that. I forgot about that. Uh, that's also in that example that I mentioned with the local band that, uh, eventually decided on like programming their drums. They. Then after they made that decision, they sent me the first version, like the first try, um, of them recording a song so that I could review it and give them and tell them if it's going in the right direction, if I can work with it, what I think about it, just to give them feedback.

I always love to do that with mixing clients because it usually makes the emperor much better. So they sent me a set of multitracks, like through the program drums and guitars and whatever they recorded and turned out that I thought, wow. Um, with this particular drum fill, it would be cool to have, uh, like if there was this and that change in dynamics, if, if it would get louder until this beat, and then it would get, I don't know, stuff like that.

Or if you would go instead of this, Tom, go to this Tom, and then stuff like that. And if that already recorded their real drums, it would be a huge pain. To redo that stuff. And if possible, at all, sound different. If it's a different day, stuff isn't too in the same way. Who knows if the drummer would have, it would have been able to, to like play instantly what I was telling them.

So, but it was very easy to just go into the middy and just change those things. And it really helped the songs a lot. That happened. The dynamics of the songs, it made the transitions better. It made stuff, it just made more sense. And it was so easy to do because of the middy. So you're totally right.

That's a huge, especially for DIY bands, because if you're not a big band with a big budget and a producer that you pay to do those things, there might not, not everything might be completely set in stone when you start recording that you might like, you might find along the way that it would be better to change the arrangements sometimes and like big bands do that as well.

But, um. You are producing yourself, that makes it even harder. You don't have a third person with the overall vision, like directing what? What happens? You have to make those decisions yourself and sometimes you find out along the way and you don't know initially, and then it's easy to just change and help the song.

Yeah, totally. 100%. 

Malcom: [00:32:44] Absolutely. I think that's, that's kind of a good spot to tie it off for, for this episode. Um, like you said, we've got a couple more episodes coming up on a kind of programming drums and, and samples and what that whole world looks like. Um, but that's a really good place to start. And, uh, if you're thinking about jumping into making a record, you could probably have the conversation with yourself or with your band about what's the right choice for you.

Benedikt: [00:33:09] Absolutely, yeah. Cool. That's 

Malcom: [00:33:13] but not least, leave us a review. Subscribe, share with your friends. We appreciate it. 

Benedikt: [00:33:18] Yeah, totally. Go to Apple podcast, which is the the most important platform for them. I think if you're listening on Apple podcast and give us a review there, and I would, we would really appreciate it if you would write.

A review. I mean, you can just leave the five stars or whatever you think it's the podcast is worth, but even batteries, if you would just write one or two sentences there, it really helps us rank. It really helps us reach people. So if you're trying this content, help us spread the word by doing that. Um, yeah.

See you next time. Uh, with the next episode on this topic. 

Malcom: [00:33:49] Adios. 

Bye. 

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