What did you do before YouTube, though, Like in the 90s and stuff? How did you learn back then? Because it was harder to get all this information right Way harder.

Well, I guess it's like the old story, isn't it? If you don't know what you don't know, you don't know, you don't know it.

This is the Self Recording Band Podcast, the show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are DIY style, let's go. Hello and welcome to the Self Recording Band Podcast. I am your host, benedict Heijn. If you are new to the show, welcome. So glad to have you. If you're already a listener, thank you for coming back. We always appreciate you and thank you for hanging out with us again today. Just know that if you're discovering this on YouTube, there is also like an audio-only podcast available on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you enjoy podcasts, and vice versa. If you're discovering this on a podcast app, you can also watch the video version on YouTube. I just say this because some people are not aware of that. So, whatever you prefer, today is a special episode. Today is not the usual Malcolm and I thing. Today, I'm with someone else here, and that someone is one of my Self Recording Syndicate members, dewey Thompson. Dewey is a self-recording musician based in England who writes and records rock and pop rock music as a solo artist as well as for his band's Brave New World and Artored States, and since we first met in 2021, I think 2021, it was he's leveled up his audio skills as well as his overall knowledge and understanding of the whole record-making process significantly, and he has finished many mixes this year that were absolutely impressive, sounding Like. The progress was mind-blowing, and so it's about time to introduce him to you and tell his story so that you can discover his music and, yeah, learn about his journey from like grading demos at home to like sending me mixes that sound absolutely phenomenal. So hello, dewey, so cool to have you. Thank you for taking the time. Hi Benedict, how are you? Thank you, thanks for asking me. Great, thank you. Awesome. Now. Is there anything missing in my introduction there? Do we have to add?

anything. No, I think that sums it up pretty much really. I mean, I guess we'll get onto the story a little bit more as we talk a bit more.

Yeah, we will. So before we met and you decided to sign up for the self-recording syndicate, which is our coaching program, give me a rundown, please, of what things looked like for you as a producer, mixer or self-recording artist back then in 2021.

And before that Okay, I suppose I'd been writing and recording my own songs for 10, 15 years or something like that, but obviously very, very informally and not really for anything other than just friends. You know that kind of thing. I was always using fairly basic equipment in terms of old laptops. I decided to invest in a new laptop, new version of Cubase and new software to kind of just try and do it properly. So that was great. I'm really money well spent and I absolutely loved getting to grips with Cubase and the power it has. And I suppose at that point I thought, okay, I've got to try and start understanding how to use this properly.

For how long have you been doing it before that, like what was with the old version, like for how long have you been recording stuff?

Well, I mean actually goes back a long, long, long way, probably to the early nineties, like the very early versions of Cubase. But that was really just kind of jamms really. That wasn't songs much, it was just recording me jamming with myself really.

So I didn't even know that about you. Did you ever have what was the thing before Cubase, like the Atari and notator programs and stuff like that? Did you have something like that?

The Atari ST and outboard gear. You know I can. I less is quad reverb GT, if anyone remembers that. Like an old guitar and less is SR 16 drum machine. Anyone remembers that?

The quad reverb is actually an underrated piece of gear that still sounds awesome. I know a few people who still use it today because of its unique sound.

Yeah, so I had a few bits and pieces, but it was all just I wasn't even writing songs at that point. It was just like I said, it was just noodling, if I'm being brutally honest. Then I started writing songs, but still on fairly basic equipment, like I said. I mean it worked fine. You know, light versions of Cubase are fine, but I finally invested in some you know this laptop and Cubase that let us version. But I realized my skills and production and mixing technique was nowhere, was nowhere near good enough to match you know what I had in terms of my equipment. So I did what everybody does now, which is I watched about 1000 videos on YouTube.

What did you do before YouTube, though, Like in the 90s and stuff? How did you learn back then? Because it was harder to get all this information right Way harder. Well, I guess I didn't.

I don't think I did. I don't think I did try to learn.

I think it was one of I guess it was one of those things were yeah Well, I guess it's like the old story, isn't it?

If you don't know what you don't know, you don't know, you don't know it. If you know what I mean, I just had either an eight track or I forgot to mention that I had an eight track, tascam cassette recorder again, you know. I don't even. I don't even know if people remember that such thing, but I didn't know what, what I was to learn, so I didn't. I said I didn't try and I'll probably. If I'm honest, I wasn't really taking it very seriously either, you know, it was just, it was just noodling, really.

So then, at some point, you decided to take it more seriously, like not just the gear, but like not just the gear upgrade, but also you like what you know, as you said, 1000 YouTube videos and you just decided you want to, you want to get better at this, and so you, you put, you gather all the information you could find, basically, and try to figure it out.

That was impossible, you know for reasons I'm sure you can understand. You know, if you watch 20 videos on compression you can all confused by the end of it. Then you went, then you were at the beginning, so I actually got to the point where I was getting lost in it. Really, I was trying to learn but getting completely lost.

What made you take the plunge to join the program then? Because that is a whole other like commitment and investment and everything like from going to just basically doing nothing, to watching YouTube, youtube, stuff to like really investing in yourself and your skills and joining a program like that.

Well, I suppose I'm trying to remember actually how we kind of how I found out about you it might have been the podcast, I think, probably.

And then we had an email conversation. I remember going back and forth. At some point you answered one of my emails, I think, or you replied, and then we had a conversation and then I offered you the call and then we. That's how it worked, I think. But the first I don't, I don't know how the, what, the first touch point was, what was it? The podcast, I think probably strifled to remember.

I imagine that's where it was. Yeah, I was in that phase of trying to find out everything and actually finding out nothing. Really, in the end, because there was too much, and it was when you offered program, I had to think about it quite a bit because ultimately, this is still just a hobby for me and I'd already spent quite a lot of money on the laptop and all the software and everything. And so I thought can I justify spending some, you know, some money on a program which is going to help me, but really it's still just my hobby, you know, can I justify that? And so I thought about it, you know, long and hard, and obviously I decided to do it because I felt that I needed some guidance.

Basically, didn't you even reach out to like some of the existing students at that point. Was that like that? I remember you. I think you posted in the Facebook community or so, and then you would do that the same for other people later, I think, which is really cool because the community is very supportive and helpful there, and so I remember you, yeah, asking a few people of how it went for them.

I think, yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the main reason for me was the felt that the YouTube, what you're trying to learn through YouTube, is all very well, but there's no path through it, there's no guidance. There's a lot of knowledge, but there's no guidance, and I was just getting completely lost and I felt I needed someone or something that would take me through in a much more structured way, which is obviously what the program does.

Thank you, yeah, it's the Qubey. Youtube is great, I mean, everything's out there, obviously, but it's uncurated and there's conflicting information and there's no feedback, and so it's all up to you to figure that out, and I learned that way, and it took so long, like years and years and years until I got somewhere, and it wasn't only when I started collaborating with others and getting feedback and mentoring from successful producers. The things really started to click and that and it seems like the same thing happened for you, where it doesn't really matter that all the information is out there if you're not sure whether or not it applies or it makes sense for your music.

And yeah, and I think what's a big thing for me was, I suppose I went from the YouTube videos on you know, you name it the obvious stuff pressure and reverb EQ, you know the obvious stuff. I was watching videos on that and so my thought was, if I do the program or something like it, I'm going to get by the end of it, I will understand these techniques a lot better. So my, my thoughts at the beginning was by the end of it I will be able to use EQ, compression, et cetera, with far more knowledge of what I'm doing, which is true. But actually I learned on the program way more. It changed my whole process and my understanding of what I'm doing, rather than just how to use EQ. It was much, much bigger and much more important than just learning how to use compression, which I said I guess we'll talk about a bit more.

Awesome. But, man, I really appreciate you saying that it's so cool that you see it that way, because it's really not about the individual techniques they are part of it but it's about the big picture and understanding the whole process and thinking about the music. What I love about your work, your music and the way you approach things was that it was always very much focused on the music, on the arrangements, on the songs themselves. You're a great songwriter. You have a great feel for things. You have a great intuition. It's just that you were lacking the techniques a little bit or you didn't know how to make what you have in your head come out of the speakers. But you had a good vision. You were very focused on the songs. So it's learning those things that you mentioned, but it's most importantly how they serve your songs and how you can come up with a process that is creative and efficient and still fun, because it's also work. So there's got to be a balance there between it being like work and learning thing, but also fun, and you manage that really, really well. You're one of the people who did almost everything we had in the program at the time. I mean, there's always new action plans and things coming now, but you went through almost all of it, or basically all of it, I think. You were very, very active and you did all the assignments. You asked for feedback and it was really, really cool to see, because not everybody puts in that amount of effort.

Yeah, I guess it was part of where I am about things. It is still a hobby for me, but I kind of wanted to be as good as I could be, given where I am with it. You know what I mean. So the fact that I joined the program, it was kind of then okay, I'm really going for it. I really wanted to dive straight in kind of thing.

Yeah, totally Now. What do things look like now? Roughly like one and a half years later or so almost two years. At this point, how do you feel about your skill level and the quality of your recordings and mixes? Any wins worth talking about?

It's completely transformed the way I do everything, and I would say that it's almost I find it almost inconceivable the difference between what I was doing before. I mean, it wasn't terrible before. I don't think it was terrible, but it wasn't. No, when you listen to, because I've gone back and remixed all those old songs and the difference is incredible. So I think we talked about at the beginning what I wanted from it and the coaching, and I said I wanted to get to a point where what I was doing could be, was never going to be professional sounding, because I'm never going to be a professional, I don't have professional gear or experience and knowledge, so that was unrealistic. But I wanted it to sound semi-professional, like it wasn't as amateurish as it sounded before and absolutely. I think that's absolutely what's happened and I'm very, very happy with the way things sound now.

You're very, like you know, british, polite, careful in the way you like, put your goal there, Because we always write down the goal that everyone has in the beginning of the program and it just I'm going to read what you put there. You said currently I don't like that was at the beginning of the program, the goal that you said currently I don't think my productions sound professional. I don't expect to get to the point where they sound fully professional, but I would like to produce something that can be compared to professional recordings, which I love because it's a very careful way of saying I actually wanted to sound professional. You know, I want to be realistic as well and I think you really got there. And I mean professional. The definition is someone doing that as a job, like you know, making a living off of it. That's their profession. And, of course, if that is the case and you can put all your time and effort and energy and all that just into that, one thing that's still different from someone to someone doing it as a hobby. But for someone who's doing it as a hobby, you got pretty darn close. So I think really listening to your stuff is absolutely fascinating and mind-blowing. And then I agree about the difference between before and after. The cool thing is it wasn't terrible, as you said, because talent and good ear obviously helps and you know certain balances and certain things in the arrangement that all was there. But whatever was lacking, I think you really filled those knowledge gaps during the program and also the confidence significantly changed. I remember in the beginning you were not so sure about a few things and, like you know, and during the program, especially towards the end of it, where we did a lot of remixing and a lot of mixing feedback going back and forth, we did a lot of that actually, which was really helpful I think. And during that phase I noticed that you got more confident as well and you seemed to be enjoying your work and working on those songs and the results much more than in the beginning. A lot of the insecurity kind of went away, which is a big thing, and that because that makes you then the better mixer also or better producer. How do you feel about the whole confidence thing, not just how it actually sounds but how you feel about, you know, working on a song?

That's an interesting question. Actually, I'm not sure I work on a song that much differently, because that part of it is probably about. It depends what you mean. The writing of the song is about the same. The arrangements of the song I've always been.

I mean I'm in the mixing, the engineering phase there, Working on your projects in general.

I mean completely different. I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. Honestly, I probably just didn't know what I was doing before. I think I thought I did. I'd never heard the phrase gain staging yeah yeah. Now, I know it's a common phrase, but I guess that tells you where I was with what I was doing. I'd never heard that phrase and so now obviously I know what it means and I absolutely do that part of it. So doing it now has changed my process, like from the moment I start recording something to the very last bit. So it's not just the knowledge of how to tweak the compression. My workflow has transformed in a way that it's just makes so much difference the use of buses, which groups group channels and buses which I didn't do before. Not really, and it's hard to explain exactly how much difference it's made really, because it's made it so much more enjoyable for me. I've been so much more productive in the last 18 months than the five years more than five years probably. I'm just constantly working on new songs all the time at the moment, which I wasn't before.

Yeah, totally, and I remember you saying at some point and I think that was really interesting and a valuable lesson also for others who listened to this I think you said something like it's not only good to learn new things, but it's good to know what actually goes into this, like what there is to learn and what you actually don't know. Knowing what you don't know and what there is and how much goes into that, this is valuable in and of itself because, even if you can't do it yet, you know at least where the gaps are and you understand the whole process better, and then, even after a program like that, you can make progress on your own much better because you understand what is still missing. I think that was a profound thing you said at some point.

Yeah, I mean, as you said, I have a better understanding now of what I don't know. There's still huge amounts I don't know, but at least I'm aware of what. That is now a bit better.

Is there anything in particular, what you did during that time now that made the biggest difference? Can you point out one thing?

It's hard to say because, like I said, there's so much. But I suppose, like I said already, I think the understanding of workflow is huge. You know, game staging, watching the input levels, more group channels, buses, that whole, just the way the tracks are arranged, all that that's huge, you know. That's the first thing, and I think the other thing, which you mentioned a minute ago, was the thing that I probably, I suppose, took me to the next level in terms of what I'd learned, is when I'd finished the learning part of the coaching to a certain extent, maybe after six months or something videos, pressure and reverb, etc, etc. What's the videos? And then went back and remixed. I don't know how many songs I remixed. It must have been about 12 of old songs Plus I was working on a few. So I remixed huge. I did a lot of mixing, basically, that's in short, and I think that's what made the difference. I suppose I didn't probably appreciate that actually, doing all that mixing and remixing, I learned so much from it.

I guess there's no substitute for that, really just the actual practice of it and what I like about it is you always went deep on one thing you went through these phases of focusing fully on mixing for a period of time, which actually really moved the needle and helped you make a lot of progress. But then also there were phases where you were like I think I should focus more on writing now again, or on arrangement. And then you went deeper on that and you studied other writers I know we had a conversation about Taylor Swift, for example, of all artists, but in other great songwriters out there and then you went into this phase of like focusing on that more, which I think is really cool because a lot of people are jumping back and forth between so many different things all the time. But you went really deep on mixing for a while, then focused on songwriting again and you had a good feel for okay, when it was like okay, I've learned enough of this. Right now I think I need to make progress in a different area now, and now I'm going to shift my focus and you have a really good feel for that and I think that also helped. It was a really intense time where we focused on those mixes, but then you also knew when it was time to do something else. And the same was true in the beginning, when you were joining a lot of the calls and you were watching all the videos and you consumed all of the information and you focused really on that, and then you felt like now it's time to implement it, and so that was a really smart way of going about it, I think.

Thank you. I'm not sure it was deliberate, but I guess that's what happened. I think something that happened during the coaching, which it may be a coincidence, I don't know, but I was listening to a lot of music. You know, I always listen to a lot of music, but I was listening to a lot of music in particular, I guess, and with something we talked about, I think, was the fact that I got to a point where I realized that I was improving myself technically, you know, in terms of arrangement and production and mixing. I was getting better at it, which is great, you know, everything was sounding better. But then I realized, listening to my own songs, I realized that maybe some of them were technically quite clever or interesting, but I don't know whether to connect with people enough, you know, and that's really I decided. I realized, I guess, that actually connecting with people and them listening to it and thinking, oh, I like this, that's far more important to me now than whether they impressed by my middle eight chord sequence. You know, it's all about connection and that's something I'm really trying to work on.

Yeah, this is so great, I love this and I love that you say this is so valuable for people to hear this, because, yeah, I mean it's cool to be like I make. I can make this as fancy or advanced as possible, or you know, some people make like music for other musicians, basically, which is which is fine, but that, yeah, I see, like you said, it's all about connection. It's sometimes three simple chords and the great melody on top of it is all you need and it creates an emotion, you know, and yeah, so so I love that, I love that realization. So how did you implement that into your music Then? Like, did you have some, did you write some newer songs where you feel like you've accomplished that and you focus more on like how it connects and less on making it complex?

Yes, certainly focusing on it. Whether I'm achieving that, I don't know, because I think it's quite hard, because nobody knows what people know exactly, and I think I put it in the right way. I probably haven't focused on it enough. I probably haven't focused enough on the melodies in my songs enough. I focused on the chord structures and the actual structure of the song, which is important obviously, but I probably haven't focused on the melody enough. And I realize that now, and I guess for me that that's because I, because I suppose the listener, hears the melody they latch onto the melody probably as much more than anything, and so if you get, if the melody isn't strong or strong enough, it's probably not going to connect in the same way. So I'm trying to work on that. It's not something that's probably I'm particularly natural at, so I have to do have to work at it, but I guess that's there you go, that's something to do anyway.

Yeah, and also just so people know, you do everything yourself. You might need to have a writing partner, and we'll get to that, because I'm going to ask you about your projects. Obviously you have a writing partner that you make music with, but for the most part, a lot of these songs that I've heard, you've done almost all of it yourself, right? You play guitar, you program drums, you sing, you do all the program based all of that, you write an arrange, and I think that makes it even harder to really focus, let's say, just on the melody or something you know. If it's, if it's all you you're doing, everything makes it probably at least not easier, and so it. Yeah. So it's understandable that the whole arrangement and everything you can do and you can put into it that, that this is important to you, and that you can sometimes get distracted by other things, that when you want to actually focus on the, on the melody, for example, Well, maybe it's one of the pitfalls of doing everything yourself, because, like I said, I write the songs and then I play everything and then I mix it, obviously, so the whole process can take a while, which gives me a lot of creative control, which I love.

But oh yeah, that's big too. I wonder whether sometimes there's a tendency to rush, rush bits of it, because you're kind of doing all of it and if it's kind of, I need to get onto the next bit, otherwise you take forever over it, and so maybe there are some stages that I rush because I'm just trying to get it finished, which is again something that probably have to work on a bit.

I mean, there's always something, but I I'd rather have you like, I think that it's better to finish songs frequently, put out songs, release songs which I think will happen for you soon, soon as well, or at some point at least. But, like, I think it's great to have consistent output and create a lot, and therefore, like, keep the feedback loop short, learn from those things, and I think that's better than trying to make it perfect, never really finishing anything. And you know, you know there's people who work on a song for a long time because they don't want to rush it, but usually those people make progress slower, because what I think helps you get better is a short feedback loop, is failing, learning, doing it better next time and repeating that as often as possible. And so so I think it's actually a good thing, even if it feels rushed at some point. I think it's a good thing that you finished a lot of music during these last two years or so.

Yeah, you like the mixing. I guess there's no substitute for actually doing it. You know you can study bits of it and work on bits of it, but actually doing it you learn. That's when you I think that's when you probably learn the most 100%.

Yes. What are some current projects you're working on right now and what are your plans for the next few months or years? So in terms of new stuff that you're working on, but also what happens with all the things you finished, like when will they be out? In which form they tell me about those projects? And what's on your plan right now?

It's quite complicated.

All right, I can't wait to hear.

My friend, chris, who I work with. He writes songs. He's been writing songs for you know he's got hundreds of songs. He had a band, brave New World, the band, and I joined that band, as you know, guitar player and songwriter and everything. And then COVID happened and so effectively the band kind of ceased to exist really, in the sense that we never met really I don't think we ever met again as the whole band. So it's become me and Chris and some of the songs are quite bulky and that's the way that the band has been for quite some time. And so anything that we've got which kind of fits into that category of kind of slightly weird psychedelic folk is going under that umbrella name of Brandy Brave New World, because that's got an existing kind of presence. But everything else we do is going to be under the name of altered states, which is pretty much everything else we do. So we write separately pretty much. But we've got a few songs recently where you know I've done the music, he's done the lyrics and vocals and so we're writing together a bit. We're assembling enough songs for an album's worth a CD. I guess probably will be a CD. I think we're getting very close actually. So there's actually no nothing out there under that name at the moment of Altered States. That's what that there will be. That's the intention. They're not too distant future. It's only again. It's only going to be to call it a hobby. I guess it is still a hobby, it's not. We're not expecting anything drastic to happen. We're not expecting to make any money from it or anything. It's just I want the songs to be heard and that's the way to get it done, I guess.

All right, perfect. So, but just to be getting right, Brave New World and Altered States are two different projects, or it has one in Wolfen II, the other basically.

No, they're two all the songs we record together are going to get put out under one of those two names, and if it's kind of slightly weird psychedelic folk thing, it's probably going to be called Brave New.

World, because there's that's already kind of known, but it's the same people, right?

Yeah, it's the same people yeah.

Yeah, that's why I'm asking All right, it's the same people, two different projects? Yeah, makes sense, makes sense. Two different audience, probably as well, right? So yeah, so, if I remember correctly, some of the songs, or at least one of them, was like released on a sampler at some point, so there was actually a release already, right, of some sort.

Yeah, some of them have been released. One of them we actually got done as a vinyl. A couple of them actually came out as vinyl. A few of them two or three of them have been put on like sample CDs or things like that for four kind of independent labels. Like I said, it's just exposure, really that more than anything, but they have been out there a bit.

Yeah, but that's great to hear. I mean, that's not something we should take for granted. I mean, a lot of people never released something in their life and they would be very stoked to have their music featured on a compilation like that or any kind of format. So I think that's inspiring for people to hear. What was the feedback on those? Did you ever hear back from those labels or from anyone on those songs? Like has there been like some feedback?

that you got. The feedback we've had has been all positive, which is nice, awesome. I think it's worth saying that. I think it's unlikely much of that would have happened. Certainly the album's worth of material say it's very. I think it's unlikely that would have happened without me doing this coaching because, like I said already, I became far more productive through the coaching. I wrote a lot more songs, I recorded a lot more songs because, partly because I was just in, because I enjoy doing it so much more. Now I love doing it, I can't stop it, I'm always working on something. So I'm far more productive because I enjoy it more. But secondly, far more confidence in how they sound as well. I mean, like we've already discussed, they are maybe semi-professional sounding and that's for me that's good enough. Now I'll take that, you know that's. I now can confidently play that into someone and say and then there people have very positive things to say about the way they sound in terms of the production. So I now feel confident to release the songs as well. So this wouldn't have happened without the coaching either. So it's changed my motivation and determination to record, plus also determination to get people to hear them too. So, like I said it's kind of changed everything really.

Yeah, thank you for saying that. I really appreciate that Awesome. So, all right, is there a place where we can like? Probably not, but is there a place already where we can find those bands or like, check out your music, maybe those samplers or like. Will there be a website or where can we point people to?

I think the short answer to is no, there isn't at the moment. I feel I feel honest. I guess we haven't spent a lot of time. I think a year ago we said let's spend the next year writing and recording songs for a release of some form or other, and I think we're now getting to that point where we can seriously contemplate that, but we haven't thought about how to actually promote it or release it enough yet. So, but that's coming, that's the next stage. So there will be, but there isn't at the moment.

Okay, so if people want to check it out they should just Google probably the band's Brave New World in altered states and then yeah, there's probably. I mean chances are there might be another artist called Brave New World with that name.

I'm pretty sure there is actually.

Yeah, they will at some point. You know, whenever you release an official record or something, we will put it in the show notes of this episode after the fact so people can check it out if you listen to this later, and for now just remember those names, they'll be in the show notes as well. If you want to check that out, how would you describe I mean, you kind of did it already but like, for who is this music for? Like for let's do a quick four fans off, kind of thing. Like who is going to enjoy your music?

Okay, oh, that's a good question. The Brave New World side of things, like I said, is kind of slightly weird. Folk is the best way of putting it so mostly acoustic and kind of a slightly weird. Some of it's kind of slightly wicker man kind of early 70s British folk kind of sounding. So that's, that's breathing your world. It's very difficult to describe the, because you've heard the songs you can, you've heard the variety in them. You know we've written, we've done a 15 minute space rock epic instrument and a three minute style.

So yeah, the.

Beatles come with a big, big 60s yellow production. There's a kind of a we've just finished a song which is kind of pretty blatant in the Brit pop blur sounding. You know, there's lots of kind of pop, as in guitar based pop as well. So it's very, very, very eclectic and it's going to be quite interesting to try and put that together actually Awesome.

And what about the other one, the altered states?

Oh, that was. That's what I was talking about, all right all right, yeah, the first, okay, okay, yeah.

Yeah, it's kind of sorry, kind of confusing for me there.

But yeah, there is so many different. We've done so many different styles, because that's just the songs we're writing and recording.

It's going to be a challenge, those are your influences, right?

Yeah, yeah, and it's going to be a challenge to try and find a way of integrating them into one project, which it sounds like it's a whole rather than two different, but I guess that's a conversation down the line.

Yeah, and also that's highly subjective. I know people who love consistent sort of records, where it's kind of in the same ballpark sort of thing, and then there's just as many people probably who like a lot of variation and don't mind an album of like completely different genres from the same artist. You know, it's like highly subjective too. So, and for me as well, like I could think of a couple of bands where I absolutely never want them to change. I basically want every record to be the same because that's what I expect from that band. You know it's got. I would kind of be disappointed if they ever change. And then there's some bands that, where I really appreciate the fact that every album or every song is completely different, and so I don't know, it depends, as always, yeah.

I think we'll probably just record what we want to record and put that out and just kind of help people like it. I think that's probably what we're going to do All right.

Do you collaborate with others at the moment, other than your writing partners? There are other people who you know contribute to your music, or do you maybe offer, like you know, any type of recording services to other bands or anything, guest musicians, whatever? Is there anybody else?

No, I've never really worked with anyone. I suppose I started out like I said, but I started out with the Fostex four track and a really old drum machine and acoustic guitar, and I've never really done anything. I've never worked with anyone until now. You know, and even now we have, you know, I kind of write my songs, he writes his songs. So I have never been in a band as such, I've never actually played with other musicians. So it's quite. I guess it's a slightly unusual kind of pathway to hear I'd like to be in a band. It's just never quite happened. I'm not entirely sure why. So I've never really worked with other musicians and I don't offer any services currently. I mean, it's an interesting thought though.

Yeah, I think you could bring something to the table, especially in terms of writing arrangement. You know also the engineering side of things Now you're really good at this now too, but you've got an overall really good understanding of the process and you, as I said, you have a really good feel for the music and the arrangements and I think you could be, you know, the producer that some people, some bands, might be missing. Just you know the big picture, outside perspective, who listens to a song, and you know that is something I could see for you. I don't know if you're ever going to be like the completely technical editor type of person. I think that's just not you. I think you're much more creative and sort of big picture of everything a little bit. You know that type of thing and I think, and I think you could bring a lot to the table there. If someone's too close to their music and maybe needs an outside perspective or something, I think that's something you could actually consider. I don't know if you've got in your circle, if there's bands that you could do that with as a start, but I think that would be valuable for people honestly, because I would.

I would trust you that you would be able to do this. Yeah, funnily enough, I've been thinking about that recently. Yeah, and I kind of, I suppose I think I kind of agree with you. You know, I think my strengths probably I think technically I'm obviously a lot better now than I was, and but my strengths are probably the arrangement and production side. I think that is where I'd have a lot of ideas and so I loved. That's my probably my favorite part of it as well, actually. So, yeah, I'd love to get involved with that. Maybe it's something I have to think about.

Yeah, totally. And also, if you're about, if you're thinking about, you know, putting a band together to actually be able to perform that live and that kind of thing, who knows, a lot of people are listening to the show. So if you're interested, and it would be cool now, of course, for people to be able to hear the music, so once that's out, we will have to do that. But when that happens and our community likes it, who knows? You know, just, I think people, I think you wouldn't mind people reaching out right and asking for like the great collaborations or whatever.

I think, yeah, that'd be fascinating. I think I said to you when I started the coaching I kind of put, I kind of put the writing on hold a little bit because I already had a lot of songs to record and so the last 12, 18 months have been very much about the learning and the coaching and the mixing and it would be nice to get back to the writing a bit more and, you know, as you said, maybe even working with other people. That would be amazing.

Very interesting. Yeah, totally Totally, and we've seen some amazing collaborations in our community. Just recently, something cool happened where people from completely different genres started creating songs together and we have, for example, paul Rob from the from from the United States, and Wayne, our podcast editor, who also like yeah, he's doing, he's doing some, some more work actually for us at the self-recording band now. He's amazing, but he also started as a coaching student and the two of them they on one of the coaching calls, they decided to collaborate and so Paul is has been doing like the Bruce Springsteen style 80s rock sort of thing and he wanted to do something new but didn't quite know how or like in which direction he wanted to take it. And then Wayne offered his help and Wayne is like a indie pop kind of, yeah, different genre, different approach, everything's a little more dirty, a little more yeah, indie and vibey and like different from the the you know classic stadium rock thing that Paul did before. And so Wayne offered help and now they're collaborating on a new song and it's been going in a completely new direction and Paul loves it and I've seen like some collaborations like that. I've seen some some collaborations where it's the same genre and everything works well together. But it's so cool to see that happen and to see that people are reaching out to each other and doing things like that. So I would love for someone to reach out to you as well and maybe you know, help get a band together or you know whatever like who knows what ends up happening. But this is a really part, a cool aspect of it too. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's time. I've left it late enough, you know, as in you know, I kind of it's a strange time and a strange thing to be thinking about, like bands and my age and as much as I've never, I've never been in a band. And now I'm thinking, yeah, I'm, obviously we've got a project, but it's not really a band as such, you know. So it's, it's, we're making and recording music and releasing it, but we're not playing, we're not the, not plans to play it, and that would be quite nice.

Awesome. Yeah, I mean actually, because I just mentioned it, the community there. How did you experience that, like the group coaching calls the community, maybe some of the other, like sort of the features or the benefits you experienced during the program? Can you, can you list a couple of things that stood out to you or how that was for you? Yeah, yeah.

I mean it's a really supportive community. First of all, actually, something you know I don't embarrass you, but I think in terms of support, I want to say you know, the most important supportive thing about the coaching was you, obviously, as a coach, that was your, clearly, you know your role to be the coach and everything. That's obvious. But you've been so positive, so much positivity about what I've been doing and, I'm sure, what everyone's doing. So it's one thing to be able, it's one thing to feel like I can record something and send it to you, but it's another thing to someone to be offering so much positivity and what you're doing and positive feedback that actually it's just enjoyable. And that's probably one of the reasons, like I said, I kind of just do this all the time now like record and mix, because I enjoy it so much. Now it was the experience of doing the course, you know, and I think with a different coach I'm sure it'd be great, but anyone who's thinking of doing this, you know it's a very, very positive experience.

Wow, thank you so much. That would have been another question, actually, where I would ask what would you tell someone who's on the fence of joining the program right now? So that's why I was asking about a few things that you might be able to point out in terms of the experience, the community, the features. But that was just said about the positivity, something I didn't expect but appreciate a lot. So, yeah, is there anything else you would want to tell people who are on the fence?

No, I think it needs to be said Thank you, thank you. Well, I guess the risk of repeating myself slightly. I suppose I think, like I said, one of the most important things for me it doesn't just teach you how to technically be better at certain things, it transforms. Well, it did with me anyway, because maybe my starting position was lower than some other people, but it transformed my understanding of the process, which is slight In reality, actually, I think, more important than how well I understand compression, because I can go and find out more about compression now if I want to. But it was learning the way things work which was by far the most valuable thing, and so it's like learning another language instead of time to. I guess what happened was I thought I would be doing the coaching to improve what I was doing, just kind of take where I was and get better at it. A bit Well, a lot, hopefully. But actually I realised I was learning a new, whole new language really, and that's what I would say to people you will learn things probably in a way that you wouldn't expect to, and be far more confident in what you're doing at the end of it, I think.

Wow, Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I know I say too, also repeating myself here, but I also have to say that it only works if people put in the effort and the work like you did. If people just consume the videos or never ask questions or never implement, never ask for feedback, it's way harder, of course. I mean you'll learn something, but what you did is exactly what you're supposed to do. You were not afraid to ask questions. You sent multiple revisions of the same song over and over until we got it right, and then the same for the next one and the next one, which is awesome, and it's not never stressful for me. I just love that, because seeing that progress and seeing how hard you worked on it was amazing, and that is the biggest reason actually why it worked. I mean, I appreciate the comments on our content and the way we coach and everything, but the fact that you have implemented all of this and used the opportunity and asked questions and did all that. That is just a big, big, big factor in all of this, and so for anyone who's thinking about joining it, it's not going to do. It won't happen just without you doing anything. You have to put in the effort, but if you do it can be really really exciting, as it was in your case.

Yeah, and I guess, like I said already, I think that just keep mixing.

Yeah, keep mixing. Exactly, do what Dewey does. All right, now, is there anything else we wanted we should let people know about your music and about I mean, we talked about current projects, about future plans, anything else you want to tell people about you, about your music? Anything comes to mind?

Oh, I don't know I think I've probably said like we've said already, it's a little bit weird in this, but it's just nothing to point anyone at the moment. I've recorded a lot recently but there's nothing to hear because we're keeping it back for like probably an album's worth, and it's a relatively. The project Altered States is a relatively new thing, so we don't have any history either. So there's nothing to point people at. I appreciate that's a bit weird.

Do you have anything like? Let's say, people reach out to us and because I mean you can always like, if you're listening to this and you, you can get kind of curious about what Dewey does you can always reach out to me. Of course you can send us an email and a podcast at thesurfrecordingbandcom or to the CDM on any social media platform, and we'll happily forward that to Dewey, of course, if you want to get in touch. But is there a possibility, dewey, that in case someone's interested, you can send them a link or something you know or whatever like, because there might be people who are curious now but don't have anything to listen to. Would that be an option if they reach out?

Yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean it's all. I love people. You know that's great. You know I love people. I just want people to hear it. Now, like I said, it's I've got no illusions of ever, you know, being successful in any meaningful sense. It's I don't. I don't expect to ever make a penny from it. I just spend weeks, possibly sometimes months, working on things and I just want to. I just want, at the end of it, I just want people to hear it. So the more people that hear it, the better. That's all I care about at this point.

Awesome, awesome, perfect, yeah. So contact, get in contact with us, get in touch with us. We'll connect you with Dewey and then we'll see what happens, and I think your stuff needs to be heard and needs to get out there soon. So I'm looking forward to these releases and to what the future holds for you, and I want to thank you again for not only taking the time to do this today, but for joining the program, for working so hard on your music, for all the kind words you said today. Of course, that is really. I really appreciate that. Yeah, that's amazing to hear that. I think that also inspires people and, yeah, thank you for everything. It's been a blast. I've had a really good time during these one and a half, two years or so and, yeah, I'm very happy and proud of what you've accomplished during that time. So, thank you so much. Thanks again.

Thank you and thanks for your help along the way, thanks for the positivity, like I said, which has been huge. I think I guess I've made it quite obvious how huge this has been for me in terms of not just increasing my skill level you know, it's beyond, it's way beyond that. It's just my understanding, it's my motivation, my confidence. Now, like I said, I'm now at the point where I'm happy for people, really genuinely happy for people to hear it in as much as I want people to hear it. I was kind of not so sure before and, as it turns out, I was probably right to be a little bit unsure about it, but I think it's now far more semi-professional sounding level.

Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, and if you want to do the same thing, if you're interested in what Debbie did and how it all works, and if you want to just talk about your music and get some feedback, get some next steps and possible next steps for you to take, then go to the selfrecordingbandcom slash call and that's the selfrecordingbandcom slash call and book a free first call. We talk about your music, we talk about where you are right now, where you want to be, and whether or not we can help you get there. And if it turns out, it's a great fit for both of us. I might make you an offer about the coaching. If not, at least you'll walk away with an idea and potential next steps to take and some feedback on your music. And so, yeah, I would love to hear from you and talk about your music as well. Now, debbie, thanks again. This has been great today and, yeah, I hope we'll keep in touch and I'll hear from you every once in a while. Now that you've kind of graduated from the program, I hope to get some updates at some point and I can't wait to hear those releases once they come out. Please let us know when that happens. Thank you, great talking to you again. Talk to you soon.

Right, all right, thanks, see you.

All right.

Thanks.