Benedikt:

Hello and welcome to the Self-Recording Band podcast. I'm your host, Benedict Hain. If you are a new listener, welcome. So glad to have you. If you are already a listener, welcome back. Thank you for coming back. Thank you for joining us again. Today, I'm here with one of my Self-Recording Syndicate members, Wayne Coulson. Wayne is a producer, engineer, and musician based in England who primarily works with indie rock and indie pop artists. As far as I understand, at least we're gonna ask him in a second if that's correct. And he frequently releases his own music as well. joined the team here at the Self-Recording Band in 2022, where he's doing editing and mixing for the podcast, as well as creating content for our social media accounts and for our coaching program. Since we first met in, I think it was 2021, late 2021, he's leveled up his audio skills a lot and as well as his overall, sorry, as well as his overall knowledge and understanding of the whole record making process. and has become invaluable for our work here. I just have to say that. So it's about time to introduce him to you and tell his story. Here is Wayne Coulson. Hello, thank you for taking the time.

Wayne:

Hi, how's it going?

Benedikt:

I'm doing great, thank you, how are you?

Wayne:

Very well, thank you.

Benedikt:

So was that correct what I just said there? Is it like indie rock, indie pop primarily? I wasn't sure about the genre thing so that's why I'm asking.

Wayne:

yeah, I think that's fair to say. You could maybe add alt to it if you wanted, but yeah, that sounded good.

Benedikt:

yeah. I always have a hard time describing what you do exactly because it's kind of its own

Benedikt:

Yeah. Which is good. You like weird distorted noises in your music and that's great.

Benedikt:

And so yeah, so do I. So then that's really cool. And so it's kind of, you work with other bands, of course, and other artists, but you also make your own music. And as far as I understand, you're working on a record that's coming up, right?

Wayne:

so after finishing the academy and graduating I thought why don't I record an album of my own stuff it's something I've always wanted to do and something I've never actually done I've done like EPs and singles and things like that but I've never put together a full album from start to finish so I've challenged myself with that now and it's going very well everything's fully written and recorded in demo form right now. I'm collaborating with other people on it. There's going to be like all in all, there's going to be about five or six different people playing on the album at various points and it should be ready 2024. I'm giving myself to have it done by.

Benedikt:

Awesome. Any plans for, like, is this going to be a self- DIY sort of release as well, like self-released, or are you like shopping

Wayne:

Yeah,

Benedikt:

for a label or anything like that?

Wayne:

no, this one entirely self-released, but with the aim of potentially leading to album number two being through a record company or an independent label or something, you know.

Benedikt:

Yeah, that's awesome. Are they gonna be physical copies? Is this gonna be a digital

Wayne:

Oh yes, that's the big thing for me for this one. I'm really doubling down on that. And I'm gonna get, there's gonna be vinyl, CD, and I hope tape, because I love tape as well.

Benedikt:

You do?

Wayne:

I do, I really do. It was, that was my main vessel for listening to music growing up, tapes. So yeah, hopefully everything.

Benedikt:

Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I kind of like it too, but just for the nostalgia, because, yeah, I grew up listening to tapes too, but at the same time, I think it's like, you know, I don't know what the fascination is about it because it's like inconvenient. It sounds bad.

Wayne:

Mm-hmm.

Benedikt:

It's like there's nothing good about

Benedikt:

it other than the fact that I kind of have good memories thinking about

Wayne:

think my thing with it is like, it's almost like every single cassette has its own voice and character. Like you could buy the same album

and they both sound different, you know?

Benedikt:

That's totally true. Yeah.

Wayne:

So yeah, there's something about it that charms me.

Benedikt:

Yeah, and it kind of forces you to listen to the whole song or record or whatever because you can't just easily skip things.

Wayne:

Exactly.

Benedikt:

Like it's just

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

the inconvenience is a good thing in that case, I guess. So,

Wayne:

Yeah, absolutely.

Benedikt:

yeah, I understand that. Awesome. Now you just said it, you and I said it too in the introduction. you were part of the Self-Recording Band Syndicate, the coaching program. You were actually the first one to sign up for it, I believe. And you've sort of graduated, but you stayed in the community because you were helping me with coaching stuff, content and all kinds of things in there. And so can you tell me real quick, like before we met and you decided to sign up for the Syndicate, give me a rundown real quick what things looked like for you as a producer, mixer and self-recording artist back then, just so you know, in the situations just so people know the situation you were in before you started this journey here.

Wayne:

Yeah, for years I'd played in bands and wrote my own stuff and then had quite a long break from music. And back then I'd always recorded on like multi tracks and four tracks, the old fashioned way I guess. And then about four or five years ago, I jumped into computer recording and I did a pretty good job of kind of getting up to speed, learning myself through tutorials online and stuff like that. And then... I kind of hit a wall where, because I've done all of this by myself, I needed to reach out. I needed to speak to either people in the industry or just people in the know. And that was the main reason that I was looking,

just for the simple, just for like being able to just ask somebody a question,

how do I, why am I having problems with this? How do I do this, et cetera.

Benedikt:

Versus try to figure it out by just Googling

Wayne:

Yeah,

Benedikt:

and watching YouTube

Wayne:

Yeah, or even like knowing if you're asking the right questions

you been like, have you been confident with your work on music and technical skills back then? Like, how did you feel about this? Because there are some people who they just don't know what they don't know and they feel very confident about what they do. And then there are other people who just like, yeah, they just know that they don't know things or they,

Wayne:

Yeah,

Benedikt:

you know.

Wayne:

I think like in my 20s and that when I was recording everything on multi-track and I just had everything turned up to 10 Then I was confident in it then because everything just sounded Dirty and loud

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

and fantastic even though it was so badly produced And I listen to them now and I can't I can't stand to listen to them But at the time I love them Um, but I think at some point I must have had like an awakening where I was like Oh, well actually I can only really qualify these as demos because the quality is just not good enough, mostly in the performance, but then in the production, stuff like that. And so I kind of realized that as well. And that's what made the self-recording band quite an attractive thing to me, because I wanted to know, because I always thought that you could only really get those high-end productions through going to a high-end studio or something like that. I didn't really think that guys like me could do it. Yeah.

Benedikt:

Yeah, okay, that's a good point. Yeah, you got to first trust that it's even possible before

Wayne:

Yeah,

Benedikt:

you can take the first step to do that, totally. Now, what made you then take the plunge to join the program and actually do it? You knew you wanted to reach out to people and get feedback and all of that, but what made you make that decision in the end?

Wayne:

I listened to the podcast for probably about half a year or something like that. And I'd noticed how much I'd moved forward in terms of my productions, just through listening to the podcast alone. And then there was one episode I was listening to, I heard you mention a free one-on-one coaching call. And then I started toying with that idea, thinking about it. And that really wasn't really something that I would do, to be honest. So. It was just in the back of my mind and then I couldn't tell you what exactly made me do it, but I just thought, I'm going to do it. I'm going to speak to him for an hour. Because he seemed like a pretty trustworthy guy.

Benedikt:

Thank you.

Wayne:

And then... Yeah, it was through the podcast really that was the main reason that I kind of felt like I got to know you a bit. Or I knew what the message was and what you were about. So that's what drew me in.

Benedikt:

Okay, cool. Yeah, there's something about being in people's earbuds for hours that builds trust, you know.

Wayne:

Create a bond.

Benedikt:

Yeah, I feel the same way with pockets that I listen to. I feel like

these people, although they have no idea who I am, but like it feels like, so I can relate. Okay, cool. So. Obviously the content seemed to help you as well, or seemed to make sense to you. And

Wayne:

Yes.

Benedikt:

then we had the call and we talked about it and it was just a perfect fit. I knew immediately that I was gonna be able to help you when I heard what you were trying to do and where you were at and I could hear the talent because that's something I can't really teach people. You gotta have something there that I can work with and that was the case in your case for sure. And so everything else is like totally teachable and then it comes down to just feedback and implementation and all of that. And now roughly one and a half years or 20 months or so later, What do things look like now? How do you feel about your skill level? The quality of your own recordings and mixes. Any wins worth talking about? How have things changed during this whole process and journey?

Wayne:

It's been fantastic. In terms of my own recordings, yeah, they're where I want them to be now. There's everything that I want to be able to do, I can do. And there's also something that's happened to me as well in terms of confidence. Like, my confidence has had a huge boost. And like, I'm not afraid to say if I don't know how to do something. I'm not afraid to ask now, you know. Whereas I was probably quite embarrassed to ask like questions before because I was worried that... you know, it was like, it would be seen as like an obvious, an obvious question and he would come across as a dummy, you know?

Wayne:

Um, yeah, but that was just me being down on myself. Um, yeah, my skill level, yeah, it's, it's definitely increased. I know I've got better ears now, you know,

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

I'm at that point now where I'm uh, listening to a guitar track and I'm hearing them whistling frequencies without, uh, soloing them, you know?

quite pleased about that. Drums was a big thing for me, timing was a big thing for me. That was had to work on that because I was just naturally and by default making things kind of out of time.

Benedikt:

which is okay to a degree. It's just the question is, is it actually helping the song still? And is it feeling or is it just too far off and distracting, you know, so.

Wayne:

Yeah, and for me, I was kind of just, that was my default, wasn't it?

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

So I'm really glad to have had that highlighted and brought that out. Yeah, I'm setting up guitars with confidence now as well. Thanks to the Diego's workshop that's included. I've met some amazing people. I've collaborated with some amazing people. Its still, it's still paying off. You know?

Benedikt:

Awesome. That's really cool to hear, man. I'm so glad to hear that. And I remember a few particular things. One is the timing thing that you mentioned.

Wayne:

Mm.

Benedikt:

Another one was the whole monitoring situation. We didn't do crazy things, like they're still

Benedikt:

same room and we changed the setup a little bit. We improved some things, but I remember that in the beginning, you had, it was more of a learning thing, learning your environment, I think, and getting maybe a decent pair of headphones. But I remember in the beginning, you had a hard time with the low end a little bit.

Yeah, and so sometimes the songs were lacking or the mixes were lacking low end because you heard too much of it in your room. And then, yeah, and then over time that totally changed and now the low end just sounds solid and it feels like you can trust what you hear now or you know it well enough now to make good decisions there. That was one big thing I remember too

Wayne:

Yeah,

Benedikt:

that happened.

Wayne:

I remember I think I sent you a track that I'd just put out for the coaching call for our very first call

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

and you were like, where's the bass?

And I was like, oh yeah, because I had bass on it, but

I turned it down so much that you couldn't hear it. But do you remember one of the first things we did in the academy was, you know, getting my room right.

Benedikt:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Wayne:

You made me do a test where I played a sine wave in the room. and made a note of where the frequencies were building up, right? And then I sent you the results and you were like, you shouldn't be able to hear this high, like, because I was able to hear like up to nearly 20k. And like, that's kind of superhuman hearing.

I went back into the session and I had a saturation plug-in on the master chain that I'd forgotten about. And that had

Benedikt:

Yep.

Wayne:

made... that give us false results.

Benedikt:

Yeah, created harmonics

Benedikt:

further down the spectrum, which made it

possible to hear the higher frequencies that you shouldn't

be able to hear. Yeah.

Wayne:

Yeah, yeah. And many more cock-ups like that throughout.

Benedikt:

Yeah, I mean, that's part of the process that happens.

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

And the big change, as you said, is also the confidence thing and also the fact that you're not embarrassed anymore when something like that happens. That is just a natural thing, I think, that we all go through. I remember, too, when I started out in bands were asking for simple revision requests, I felt like I've been defeated, you know? It was like, oh, no, obviously I'm bad at this. I can't do this. I made everything wrong. They want me to change everything. I did a bad job or whatever, and then I learned that this is normal, that you make mistakes, revisions or that you sometimes don't nail it or and then you get comfortable with that and it's not as terrible anymore and it's similar with you. I think when we started with the podcast for example with the podcast mixing when in the beginning I had revision requests or wanted you to change something you kind of felt like oh, I don't know this is like a lot and I've never mixed like voiceover before and this is different from music

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

and you kind of almost panicked a little bit there

Wayne:

Oh, totally

Benedikt:

and

Wayne:

did. Yeah, yeah.

Benedikt:

yeah, and now it's like I tell you something that I want you to change and you're like, you know problem I'm gonna look into that and then you do it and it works and so it's a totally different approach to

Wayne:

Yeah,

Benedikt:

this and you know.

Wayne:

Yeah. I think my just initial reaction to things is to overreact, unfortunately.

Benedikt:

Yeah. But again, that's normal. And I'm glad that there's kind of a that you are more calm now and that there's more confidence. You can you know that you can do this. You know that you have the ability to hear things properly. Sometimes it's just a matter of practice or, you know, it's at the end of the world if something goes wrong. And that really changed. And that helps you with work with other artists as well, I think, because you have to be able to have an opinion, say to the artist, believe in it, be confident in that and don't. and just communicate that clearly and therefore be the guide for them that they can trust. And this is just a part of the whole thing. So you've got to have that confidence, otherwise you can't help people make good music. Cool. Now how would you summarize the benefits of the program? Like some details. I mean you said what you got out of it and what changed for you, but like was it... the community or the videos, the calls. You were in early, so it was a little different from now where we have these structured action plans and everything. There was more, it was a little different. It was almost like a testing thing for me as well. A lot of one-on-one calls and attention and stuff like that is now more streamlined because it's more effective for everyone. But if you think back now, what was the most valuable thing to you? Or what were some of the benefits that you experienced in the program?

Wayne:

Yeah, it's changed a lot, hasn't it? In the last year and a half since

Yeah, at first it was the one-on-one calls that you and me had. I think we had a... We probably ended up having close to 10 calls or something in the first three months, maybe. You were helping me out with various things, like a song of my own that I was recording and mixing. And also I was recording... I was producing another band at the time, and it was the first time that I'd produced a band in a studio. So yeah, you helped me with that. And that was invaluable at the time because we had a series of calls. We've got everything nailed down and ready. And the sessions turned out amazing because of that. So that was invaluable at the time. Then as the course went on, it was the thing of just being able to drop you a quick message with a question

Benedikt:

Mm-hmm.

Wayne:

and get a response from you. Again, going back to like the kind of stupid questions thing, it was like... Instead of sweating about it and trying to figure it out and going around in circles, I can just get in touch with this professional guy that I'm working with and he can just straight away tell me the right option, you know? So there's that. And then there's also the community. The coaching calls are great and just the questions that people have in there and the conversations that we have. Just through even just listening to them calls, you kind of learn and grow, you

Benedikt:

Yeah, those becamesuch a cool routine for me as well. Now, I just look forward to this every single week. Sometimes we, even if there's no pre-submitted questions or nothing, no big problem that we have to solve, sometimes these conversations, just where they go naturally is like inspiring and cool to me sometimes. And it's, I don't know, I just love to catch up with everyone and talk about music. And there's always something, there's always some nugget in it and something that I can learn as well. So these group calls, I love them.

Wayne:

Yeah, and I find for me it's good because I'm encountering things that are outside of my little workflow and problems that I wouldn't normally encounter, but one day I might. So it's useful for that as well.

Benedikt:

Yeah. And I think you learn when you teach. You learn a lot when you teach. So when someone asks a question and the community tries to answer it, or everyone gives their opinion, when you're forced to think of a solution for something, even if it's not your own problem, but when you have to find a solution or try to help someone with a problem, that kind of, I don't know what that is, but it makes it It helps you learn and improve yourself in a way. It kind of, I don't know what it is, but like, yeah, you know what I mean. When you give someone feedback and you teach them, then you learn something yourself or you suddenly see a problem from a different perspective and then you can implement that into your own workflow or whatever it is. I just think that's great for everyone. Yeah, cool. So you mentioned the one-on-one things in the beginning. I have to say that for people now, if they apply for the coaching, this has changed, but not because I'm lazy now and I don't want to do one-on-ones anymore, but I found that as much as I love those, they were great in the beginning for me as well to learn and to figure out what the bottlenecks and problems are with people and how I can help them best. But then I just kind of looked at my, at how we spent our time and how much people got from it. And we, and I discovered that If we do 10 calls, for example, and it takes 10 hours to do these 10 calls, if I instead send people asynchronously, like loom videos, for example, where they send me their questions, I record a quick video of me explaining them or giving them a solution, and it's like a three-minute or five-minute loom video that I sent back, then that's pretty much everything it takes. And then... You know because on a call you do a lot of small talk, you talk about other things too, and it's not only about the real problem that people have. And if you do it that way with like asynchronous communication and a loom feedback video from me, then... you can solve those same problems not in 10 hours, but maybe in two hours total. And then the other person on the other end, like the student has eight hours to implement and exercise and practice. And I found that to be much more effective for both sides. And in cases where a one-on-one is necessary because there's follow-up questions or something I need to clarify, I will still do these. I do these all the time. I just went on one with Ryan, another student here where I just watched him track or like looked at his takes in his doll because he wanted to improve. of his tracking process and know if the way he's tracking and editing, if that's really effective, or if he's looking and listening for the right things. So I jumped on a one-on-one with him and we dove into a session. So I do that still, but not for every single question or just because, you know, if you offer that, people will just book it and it's valuable. But again, it's also kind of a waste of time if compared to asynchronous communication where you can do so much more than on your own time. That's the reason I do it that way right now. And it's been incredible for everyone.

Wayne:

Nice, that makes sense, yeah.

Benedikt:

Yeah. So, and you guys, the first batch who joined the program, you were in the coaching also a little longer. You were sort of my guinea pigs in a way

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

also. And I'm so glad I did it that way. And so, yeah, cool. But yeah, so thank you for summing all of that up because I think that helps people get an understanding of the value of this because the fact alone that you can ask someone and get direct feedback, it's very different from just the course or YouTube videos and then the community is also something that I just love. So I'm glad you feel the same way about this.

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

Cool, now back to your own music and what you do as a producer and musician right now. What exactly is it that you are offering now to artists and musicians? What do you do?

Wayne:

Well, it started out, I just wanted to mix. I decided when we started, when I started the course. But now I'm kind of open to everything. Like I'm happy to produce as well. Produce, mix, collaborate as an artist, anything you want really. Yeah, I've got the skills.

Benedikt:

Cool, cool, awesome, yeah, because I'm asking because I always saw you as the creative type of producer, not just a technician, you know? I mean, you can do that. You can obviously engineer and edit and all of that, but you

Wayne:

Mm.

Benedikt:

have, I don't know what it is, but you have your own. taste and vision and I think you just enjoy creating songs and the art and not just the engineering part of it.

Wayne:

Yes.

Benedikt:

And so I always saw that as a strength of yours. So I think combined with the right artist and finding someone who trusts you and who has like a who yeah where you like the music they do and you know where it's just a great fit I think some real magic can happen there. So I think that's sort of your thing. Would you agree with that? No.

Wayne:

Yeah, 100%. Took me a little while to realize that, but yeah.

Benedikt:

Yeah. When you worked with those guys in Arms, I think they were called, right? This band

Benedikt:

Did, was that more engineering or was there, did you help them with the songs, arrangements and that sort of stuff too there?

Wayne:

It was mostly engineering. Well, not saying that, I did, I dialed in a few guitar tones actually. Yeah, it was, it was a, an even mix of the two actually. And I even, I even wrote a few little guitar parts in the background

Benedikt:

Oh yeah.

Wayne:

for them, you know, so. Yeah.

Benedikt:

There you go. There you go. Yeah, that's super invaluable for bands because some, I mean, not every band wants that or, you know, is willing to try to experiment with that. but I think it's worth it for most of them because you're so close to your own material, you're not objective anymore, so

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

it's worth getting this outside opinion and creative input as well, not just the engineering. And yeah, I think more bands should do that. And with someone like Wayne, who can bring much more to the table than just like turning knobs, that can really, as much as I hate that phrase, but it can really take your productions to the next level. It's like one of these marketing terms that I can't stand

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

anymore, but it's really true. Because yeah, it's more than just capturing what you already have and what you've been working on for years, it's like adding a little extra to it, making it a little bit better, making it a little different maybe, and viewing it from a different perspective and then turning it into a record. And that is really

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

invaluable, I think. And not every engineer can do that.

Wayne:

No, but it's like, it's like I always say, like if, if you listen to my stuff or stuff that I've worked on and you like it, then the chances are that we'd probably work quite well together, you know, or I'd have some interesting feedback or input on your stuff, you know.

Benedikt:

Yeah. How would you describe your aesthetic? Or is there like, let me put it differently. Do you, is there a sort of aesthetic or a sonic sort of footprint or something that you have that you bring to people's productions? Or like, is there anything like that? And if so, like, how would you describe that? What do people get if they let you contribute to their, to their music?

Wayne:

Well it's not really, I'm not really the guy to go to if you want super, super cleaned up, super quantized nice recordings

Benedikt:

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Wayne:

That's not really me, I kind of like, I like to have, like you said at the start, kind of weird distortion noises in that here and there not overwhelming, but certainly adding something How do I describe it Benedict? I don't know.

Benedikt:

Yeah, I mean, you don't have to have that too. Like, to me, it's like, to this day, I don't know what's better. There was a period of time where I thought... I had to sort of develop a signature sound or be known

Wayne:

Mmm.

Benedikt:

for a certain thing that I do so that people come to me for that. And then there were times where I thought I have to be kind of invisible and transparent and just bring out the best in whatever's handed to me. And I kind of think both is true in a way, or both can be helpful. And there are some mixers, producers, engineers that have a sound clearly where I can immediately tell that it's this person. And then there are others who make just this amazing stuff where it's really transparent. And So I don't really know. I believe that whatever we do, we have to help the artists be the best version of themselves and create the best version of their art they can create, whatever it takes. But I also think that it helps if you just know what you like and if you have your own taste and if you clearly say like you just did, I can do a lot of things, but I am not. the right person if you want this because I know that this isn't just something I don't like or I don't do well. And this is great if you're able to say it like that because that it's still open in a way. You can still do a lot of things, but you also clearly know what you don't like or what would not be probably a great fit. And then so this kind of kind of

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

a middle ground in there. And I assume when you work with people, there are situations where it's absolutely a great fit and you can have your, you know, taste and you're sort of fingerprint on it. And then there are other situations where it's best to just leave it alone and try to just present it in the best way possible, but not try to change it. So I think both can be true.

Wayne:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I'm always willing to compromise with stuff as well, because as you say, it's about creating the artist's vision, isn't it? But I just thought of a pretty good analogy there, or a metaphor, and we'll try this, right?

Wayne:

What you would get. is a mic'd up acoustic guitar and a little bit of room noise, you know. That's what you get with me.

Benedikt:

Yeah, that's beautiful. That makes so much sense.

Benedikt:

it does. It does. It does. And yeah, people might be wondering now because you would you'll be surprised how many people record their acoustic guitars with like the direct in like

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

just plugging it in because they think that's how you do it. But no, it's usually not how you do it for various reasons. But I get the analogy, though. The plucked-in acoustic guitar gives you every single detail, every noise that this guitar makes

Wayne:

Hmm.

Benedikt:

that the pickup picks up and you record that. But the thing is you don't want all of that because not all of it is beautiful. And some stuff is just harsh and hard and brittle and not pleasant sounding and not pleasing sounding. And when you mic it, you get the good stuff and you can position the mic so that you get exactly what you want. And you also get the character of the room and it sounds unique and not like every other plucked-in acoustic guitar. So that's the difference there.

Wayne:

Exactly.

Benedikt:

Yeah, totally get that, totally get that. Cool, awesome. Now how can those people find you and contact you and work with you if they're interested?

Wayne:

The best way to contact me is just on Instagram, actually, because I've got a link there with Benedict, I've forgotten the name of the... Linktree,

Wayne:

that again. I'll start that again, right.

Benedikt:

Okay, yeah.

Wayne:

The best way to contact me is on Instagram because I've got a Linktree on there with a link to all of my stuff. My mixing website or production website, the stuff that I'm generally up to, which is on Instagram as well, and my music, which is on SoundCloud and YouTube. So that'd be at Wayne Coulson Mixing.

Benedikt:

Awesome. Yeah, we're gonna put that in the show notes. You're gonna put that there actually

Wayne:

I am, yeah, because I'll be editing this.

Benedikt:

Yes Exactly Um, and so uh contact wayne hit him up like just get in touch I'm sure you're open to just having a chat and conversation about the music and see if it's a great fit. Uh, there's no I know that nothing bad can happen there. Just have a conversation and see if it works out. Yep And so I definitely recommend doing that now would you? also do things like you do for the self-requiring band right now? Are you like creating content or are you open to this? Because You're a primarily musician and producer and engineer, of course. But now, since you've joined the South African band team here and we've been working together, you are not only editing and mixing this podcast, but you're doing like real short form videos for us, long form videos for the coaching program, our YouTube that is maybe already out when this podcast airs, but like proper YouTube channel videos that we're going to make and stuff like that. Do you do things like that for artists, too, if they want that? Or is that like not really what you're specializing in?

Wayne:

Absolutely, yeah. It's not exclusive to you. It's, yeah, you can... Oh, sorry, it cut out there, Benedict.

Benedikt:

Oh good.

Wayne:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I do have my finger in a lot of pies at the minute with music and content creation and video editing. Yeah, hit me up for anything you want, man. I love working on a creative project.

Benedikt:

That's cool. And I'm asking this because, again, I've changed my mind a little bit lately, because I used to believe that you should stick to... few things that you do really well and not try to do everything and so I thought that producers mixers engineers should only do that and Focus on that to become really good and let other specialists do the rest and there's still truth to that I still believe that if you want to become world-class you have to double down on a few things and

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

not try to Do everything but also the one thing that has changed is you don't have to become the best of the world in content creation it's you have to your focus and your main thing is the audio part. But if you can become good enough at other things that helps artists get their music out, then that's a good thing. I don't think you can be the best video editor, the best social media expert, and the best mixer all at the same time in the world. I don't think that's possible, but I don't think it has to be like that. Again, I think just building this stack of skills. that you can offer in addition to your main thing is getting more and more valuable and important these days because then you can be an outcome focused producer or someone that people hire to get a certain result and they don't hire you because in the end they don't hire you because they want a mix or they want a recording. They hire you because they want people to hear their music and potentially even deeper than that they want that because of some reason they want They have a goal, whatever it is, self-actualization or an actual, you know, whatever career goal, but they have a goal and they want to achieve that. And if you can help them in any way possible, then that's a good thing. And so I believe that those people who get that and who have skills beyond just, quote unquote, just producing and mixing, they will do well and they will be the ones that bands and artists want to work with because they help them. beyond just the studio experience. And again, the whole promo and content thing doesn't have to be on the same level as like an agency does that only focuses on that, but it can be enough to take them to the next level again and to help them get their fans, their first couple of fans, or expand their fan base to a degree. And so I really think that it's good that you are also doing this now and that you can offer that to people if they want that.

Wayne:

That's a beautiful way of putting it. How is it that you can put things so eloquently and this is your second language? You know? Ha ha

Benedikt:

I don't know. I'm feeling I'm super... I honestly, I ramble a lot and I talk a lot and I always feel like I'm super long-winded, but I appreciate that if you say

Wayne:

No,

Benedikt:

that.

Wayne:

no, you, you just, where you can say things, my mind just goes blank and I just stutter and you know, I can think of the right thing after some time, but like, I'm just terrible at conversation Benedict.

Benedikt:

Maybe it helps that I've done 200 plus podcast episodes in my

Benedikt:

Yeah, I don't know. It's just that. I don't know. English always was kind of, languages always were kind of natural to me. I don't know. And then the podcasts help. I was always, and I kind of hate, sometimes I hate it that it is like that because it has side, like unwanted side effects. For example, whenever I'm in a band, I end up being the person who has to talk in between songs on stage, which I don't like.

Wayne:

Oh, gotcha.

Benedikt:

play and in between just tune my bass. and then play again, you know, and

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

do nothing else. But I always end up being the one who has to do the transitions in between and stuff. So,

Wayne:

No.

Benedikt:

yeah, I don't know. Blessing and the curse. Ha ha

Wayne:

Yeah,

Benedikt:

ha.

Wayne:

absolutely. You don't want to have to talk to the public, do you?

Benedikt:

Yeah, actually, I don't like any of this. No. Yeah, it's like on stage, it's a different thing. I feel

know. feel what you just described, how you feel on a podcast, for example, right now is what I feel like on stage, probably because I haven't done it enough. I've played enough shows, but like that's not nothing in comparison to 200 plus episodes where I talk for an hour. And

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

so every time I'm on stage and I have to do that, I'm still very nervous. I feel like

I don't know what I'm saying anymore, even though I've planned it before. And so I don't know.

Wayne:

Yeah tool would help there.

Wayne:

yeah. Well, when I used to play in bands, I'll be honest, playing live was always the thing that I enjoyed the least.

Benedikt:

Really?

Wayne:

Yeah, absolutely. I've never really been that guy, you know. But

Benedikt:

That's interesting.

Wayne:

there were some gigs we did that were great. And I think probably if we'd had a roll of gigs like that, then I probably would have come round to enjoying them and looking forward to them and put more energy into them. but it's always been the writing side and the recording side that's been where my passion lies.

Benedikt:

It's kind of similar to me. I mean, I love being, when I'm in a band, I love being on stage and I do it mainly for that but... But yeah, I can still relate. If it's my own music, for example, if I write songs for myself, I probably would never form a band around that and then try to get it on a stage. I would just do it for myself and make it a studio project and release it because

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

I prefer to do that so I can totally relate. But on the other hand, if I'm in a band with friends, as I've always been my entire life, there the whole goal is to be on a stage and have these nights with cool people and feel the energy and everything. I just, just the talking in between is what makes me nervous. The playing, not so much.

Benedikt:

but I understand. I understand what you're saying there.

Wayne:

I think I'm just quite introverted naturally, you know.

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

But it's never as black and white as that, is it? Because like I said, there were some gigs we did that I absolutely loved and we went down amazing, you know, and I've fed off the energy of the crowd. But like the next gig I would be like, oh God, I don't want to do this.

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Why do we have to do this?

Benedikt:

Yep, can relate, can relate.

Wayne:

Hehehe

Benedikt:

Especially if you are doing this on the side and sometimes, you know, I don't know if it was the same for you, but sometimes you cannot prepare as well as you would want to, and

Benedikt:

you feel a little underprepared to say the least,

Wayne:

Always the case because we were all like, we're all young, but we all had jobs. We all had, you know, places to be, university, whatever, completely different schedules and that. So it'd be rare that we'd get a good practice in before a gig. So,

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

yeah, that didn't help.

Benedikt:

It blows my mind how there are people who can fill in for someone in like a big band in front of thousands of people. And they, you know, they, sometimes the band asks them the night before, hey, can you

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

like fill in tomorrow? And then they jump on the plane, listen to the songs on the plane without being able to practice it. And then they show up and play.

Wayne:

Yeah, man.

Benedikt:

Like I've heard stories

like that a couple of times and it just blows my mind. I've heard

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

that with a very technical death metal band where someone had to play, I think it was. Was it drums or I don't know what it was. I don't know. No, it was guitar, actually, guitar. And the person just jumped on a plane. I heard that on a podcast. The person just jumped on the plane, listened to the songs while he was flying there, no chance to really practice it. Then he got off the plane, tried to play the songs like once backstage before the show, and then he entered the stage and did the show with them in a technical death metal band. How is that even

possible? Just looking at the tabs and listening to the music, and then you can't actually play it? It's like crazy to me.

Wayne:

It's like session musicians are terrifying things aren't they? Like I think if I Basically from the age of 15 if I never put the guitar down, I never played any computer games I never watched any movies. I never did anything and solely played guitar then maybe I could I could be doing that but it is not

Benedikt:

Totally, totally nuts. Yeah, and having the confidence to just do that also, it's like

Wayne:

Yeah, yeah,

Benedikt:

Blows my mind. Yeah. All right, so what would you tell someone on the fence about hiring someone like you to help them make a really cool record? What would you tell them? Because I know for a fact, because I'm in that situation all the time with people, I know for a fact that there are a lot of people out there who think... they can do it all when they actually can't really, or

Wayne:

Mm.

Benedikt:

they kind of know they can't, but they're still hesitant to hire someone or they can't trust someone, especially

Wayne:

Mm.

Benedikt:

a stranger on the internet. Like what would you tell someone who's thinking about that, but is not quite sure if that's a good idea?

Wayne:

The first step is just to get in touch man. That's something that I really struggled with online for years. Is that like I would follow people and have lots of questions for them but I'd be too afraid to get in touch. So that's the first step. Just get in touch and have a chat. And we'll see. We'll see you know. We might be a good fit. We might not be a good fit but if we're not then I might be able to put you on to somebody who is. Yeah just don't be afraid. Just speak up.

Benedikt:

Yeah, I love that part that you just said there, because if you get in touch with someone like Wayne, who's a genuinely good person and just wants you to succeed with your music, then if you can't do it, as you said, you will recommend someone else, because

Wayne:

Absolutely.

Benedikt:

all that matters to you is to help the person talking to you and to make sure that they get what they want at the end, even if that's not you. And so, yeah, just reach

Wayne:

I've got no interest at all in just taking somebody's money for the sake of it and just doing a bare bones job and sending them on the way. Like, no, I'm not that guy. So if you did have doubts about getting in touch with me, you don't have to worry about that.

Benedikt:

Yeah, awesome. Love that. I love that so much. Cool. Now, same question. What would you tell someone who's on the fence about joining the coaching program?

Wayne:

Um, do it. Just do it. I've learned that it's very important to invest in yourself. And I probably would have laughed at myself for saying that three years ago.

Benedikt:

Mm-hmm.

Wayne:

But it's been the best thing that I've ever done

Benedikt:

Awesome,

Wayne:

Like I'm just, nothing really worries me anymore. Everything's kind of like exciting again, you know, because there's no... major roadblocks and if there is a roadblock I've now got the tools and the skills and the contacts to overcome it. So yeah, it's a no brainer and if you're unsure, like I've just said about myself, just get in touch with Benedict, have a chat, you know, find out what it's about.

Benedikt:

Awesome, thank you so much for saying that really. Yeah, that's so cool to hear that obviously. And in your case, it also had another side effect that wasn't planned really. I mean, you now have a side gig working for the self-recording band too.

Wayne:

Yeah, yeah, cause you'd posted it like

Benedikt:

Yeah.

Wayne:

a wanted ad on Facebook, hadn't you? Well, not an ad, but a post, and it had been sitting there for a few months and I hadn't seen it. And I was like, no, maybe, maybe a guy like me could do that.

Benedikt:

the truth is I've reached out to the community first because I thought, well, why not ask my own community?

Benedikt:

Those people know what we do already and there's probably people in there who can do what I want there. And turns out that yes, the community responded and I got a couple of replies, but unfortunately, none of them were, there was always a reason for why it wouldn't be a really good fit for one reason or the other. It was a little more difficult to find someone that I would trust or that would be a good fit for the role. And then you reached out and I immediately knew, man, that we got to try that. That would be so ideal. That would be so awesome. And it turned out to be a really good idea. So

Wayne:

Yeah, it seems to be going alright, doesn't it?

Yeah.

Benedikt:

definitely do. Definitely do. Yeah, cool. So yeah, just get in touch. Let's have a chat, just as Wayne said. Let's, you know, you can reach out to me on Instagram or via email, or you can just apply directly for the coaching if you go to thesoftrecordingband.com slash call, and there's a little application form. You can fill it out, and then I will reach out and confirm the call if I think I can help you. And then we'll just jump on a call, have a conversation, and if it's a good fit, I'll offer you a spot in the program. And if not, then not. But then, worst case is, you get an hour of free coaching, some advice, some action steps for you to follow. Best case is we end up working together and transform the way you create music in the future. So just reach out, do this. Reach out to Wayne at Wayne Coulson Mixing on Instagram. If you want Wayne to collaborate and work with you on your music, definitely do it if you're that type of artist. Listen to his, the best thing is to listen to his music, like you said, Wayne, because you will immediately get a feel for, I

Wayne:

Hmm.

Benedikt:

think, what you're about.

Is there a link to your music too on Instagram, right?

Wayne:

Yeah man, there's a link to everything on there, there's a Soundcloud link in my linktree on there.

Benedikt:

Cool.

Wayne:

But what I was just going to say as well

Benedikt:

Mm-hmm.

Wayne:

is, I've saw I'm putting this album out next year and I decided from a coaching call last week actually that I'm going to probably put out three singles before that as well. So there is going to be material coming from me very soon.

Benedikt:

Oh, that's exciting. That's exciting

Wayne:

it's gonna be music, but there's one song in particular that I really have got a kind of vision for a video for. So I'm gonna get in touch with the guy I know and see if we can work something out. Maybe he could help me shoot the video and I'll help him record a song or something because he's in a band as well. So fingers crossed a music video too.

Benedikt:

Awesome. That's exciting news. I'm definitely going to share anything that you release, of course. So

Wayne:

Awesome.

Benedikt:

if you're following me, then you're going to see that stuff come up too. And then of course, again, Wayne Colson mixing on Instagram. All right. Anything else you want to add there, Wayne? Is there anything you want to say or we've got to talk about?

Wayne:

Nah, I don't think so. I think we covered most things. I think it went quite well actually.

Benedikt:

Yeah, I think so too. I'm very excited, man. I want to thank you for everything you do at the Self-Recording Band, and it was about time to bring you on this podcast, because people, if you've been listening to the show for the past, I don't know, how many episodes, Wayne? 20, 30, I don't know. Maybe more

Okay, over 30. All of those were edited and mixed by Wayne. And I'm super happy about that whole thing. And then, you know, posting, publishing the content, putting the show notes together from my notes that I give you, making the videos for the action plans in the coaching. This has improved so much because now I can just focus on teaching and you take the raw video and turn it into a video, an edited one for the action plans. People love those. I just got an email from someone signing up for a free thing, for a free video that we do, telling me that it was the best tutorial he's ever seen on that. So if you want that, by the way, it's thesufferquittingband.com slash standout mixes. And so the fact that you are doing these video edits now and doing so much, helping us so much here with the content makes my work, my life not only easier, but also better because I can focus on what I'm really good at, and I'm really grateful for everything you do, Wayne, really.

Wayne:

Yeah, we've achieved maximum Benedict, haven't we? Ha ha ha.

Benedikt:

Yeah, totally. Totally. We're on the way there. Let's put it

Benedikt:

way there. Getting there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, looking forward to that. Looking forward to the YouTube stuff. And I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing more, like definitely hearing more of your own music and hopefully also more collaborations with other artists that come and work with you.

Wayne:

Yeah.

Benedikt:

So, yeah, nice. And yeah, I just loved all of that. And so thank you for taking the time again to do this today.

Wayne:

Thank you.

Benedikt:

and talk to you soon.

Wayne:

Awesome. Cheers man.

Benedikt:

Bye bye, cheers.