202: The Three Ways To Make An Outstanding Record

[00:00:00] Benedikt: Like all of them name, any successful artists, they do something really well. And it didn't happen overnight. Even the overnight successes are like 10 years in the making. You just see them all of a sudden, right?

[00:00:10] Malcom: 100%. I, I think that's a great way to think about it. They're, they're experts at something and then they figure out what they're not experts at and how to solve that problem. 

[00:00:19] Benedikt: Hello, and welcome to the self recording band podcast. I am your host, Benedikt Heijn. Welcome to the show. If you are already a listener, welcome back. So glad to have you again. If you are new, this is the place where we teach you, or we talk about making great records on your own in your jam space. We try to teach you.

Different ways to do it. we tell you how we do it, how we've done it in the past, what worked for us. And you can always see this as an advice buffet, pick the things that [00:01:00] work for you. Try them out on your own. you've come, you've come to the right place when it comes to home recording advice. Please know that this is available on YouTube as well as all the favorite, you know, podcast platforms like Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you enjoy your podcasts.

So wherever you're discovering us. There's the other option as well, if you want to watch or just listen. And, uh, today we're going to talk about, I think by the time this comes out, it's going to be the end of the year. This is probably going to be out between Christmas and new year 2023. So we're going to make a typical end of the year episode, that helps you plan out what are you going to be doing next year in 2024? We want to help you make 2024 your best year ever as a musician, as a DIY producer. So time to do some planning time to do some thinking about our goals as musicians and DIY producers. And the topic that we're going to talk about specifically is that in my opinion, I came up with this and I'm curious to hear Malcolm's thought on this.

in my opinion, when it comes to making a really great record, like the [00:02:00] best record possible, There are really only three ways to accomplish that. And so, yeah, I want to discuss that, break it down for you so you can make 2024 your best year ever as an artist. And as always, I'm not doing this alone. I'm doing this with my friend and co host Malcolm Owen Flood.

Hello, Malcolm. How are you?

[00:02:18] Malcom: Hey Benny, I'm good, man. Excited. This is like the end of the year episode. It's the big inspirational one to convince people to finally do it.

[00:02:25] Benedikt: Exactly. Totally. So let's jump right to it. I'd say I'm, I'm motivated. I'm, yeah, excited to hear your thoughts on all of this because I mainly came up with this and I, I'm interested in hearing your perspective here. So,

[00:02:36] Malcom: Absolutely.

[00:02:37] Benedikt: I think when we want to make a really great record, when we want to make something that sounds great, that sounds impressive, that we are proud of, what does that really mean?

Like, I think it's important to know what you actually want. Yeah. And what kind of resources you have available. So the main questions I want you to ask yourself, and that I want to, you know, build this episode around is, do you want to [00:03:00] make a really great record for yourself or your band right now? Or do you want to make a really great record for your band or yourself someday?

Eventually, but it's not really important that it happens fast. Do you want to become a producer and, or a mixer and make amazing records for different artists? And then what do you have more of time or money? So, these are the questions that we're going to talk about and then maybe an additional question, which is which parts of the whole process do you really want to do and learn?

Because you might not want to do all of the things, but some of them. And so we're going to talk about different solutions, different ways to answer these questions. And at the end of the day, it all comes down. To one thing, we want you to take action and not just sit around and wait for it to happen because that won't ever happen.

Like there's no way of accomplishing that without putting in some sort of effort investment in either time or money or both. And, we want you to take action. We want you to actually make that next step towards making your dream record. And we want to [00:04:00] show you the different ways you can actually accomplish that because there's only a few ways that really work.

If you look at any of the records that you enjoy, any of the records that we all love by our favorite artists. They are all made one way or another, but like, it's always one of those, those options, basically. It's never that just someone did the bare minimum and just, it just happened. Like they always put in some sort of effort in one direction and, yeah, let's talk about it.

[00:04:25] Malcom: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I always tell bands that there's, there's one thing that all of their favorite bands have in common and that is that they've released music. They, it's a universal truth of successful musicians is that they've released music and usually quite a bit of it more than you have if you are not feeling like you're a successful musician at this point.

so getting that out there, getting your music out there, like if you want people to sing along when you play it live, they need to be able to listen to it before they go to the show, right? Like it's, it's everything people need that product, if you want to call it that,

[00:04:57] Benedikt: Absolutely. I never thought about it like that, but yeah, that's, that's [00:05:00] really the, the, the minimum requirement is you, you know, got to put something out there and I, I'd

[00:05:04] Malcom: the minimum requirement and so many people never cross that line. It's, it's

[00:05:08] Benedikt: It's wild. Yeah. And the second thing I'd argue that those people have in common is that they are, all of them are really, really, really good at something.

Not at the same thing necessarily, but at something. So they put in time and energy. In becoming very, very good at a certain thing, and even the ones where you'd say, well, they're not the best musicians, and they're also not producers, and they still are successful, they still are good at something, be it like how they present themselves on the stage, or they do something that resonates with people, so whether they did it consciously, or it just happened, or whatever, they definitely put some sort of amount, like some amount of time and effort into something, into building their brand, or into becoming really great performers, or musicians, or Something happened that sets them apart from the rest.

Like all of them name, any successful artists, they do something really well. And it didn't happen overnight. Even the overnight [00:06:00] successes are like 10 years in the making. You just see them all of a sudden, right?

[00:06:03] Malcom: 100%. I, I think that's a great way to think about it. They're, they're experts at something and then they figure out what they're not experts at and how to solve that problem. And I'm going to give you the craziest example I could think of off the top of my head. Britney Spears.

[00:06:17] Benedikt: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:18] Malcom: Britney Spears is a phenomenal performer.

You know, she's like, like she can dance and she can sing and, and she's got the look. And, but she doesn't write songs or maybe she does. I don't, I shouldn't say that, but,

[00:06:32] Benedikt: There's definitely songs that other people wrote for her. Yeah.

[00:06:35] Malcom: Right. She was discovered as like a performer and then it was like, well, we get Max Martin to write a song and, and give that to this talent.

It's going to go, you know, so they filled that hole and they filled the production hole. It was like song production package it with what Britney Spears is now we have a worldwide. You know, sensational artist. I'm, you know, decades off [00:07:00] right now. I think it's a good example of like obvious talents and skills and obvious holes and then solving that problem and moving forward and, you know, reaping the benefits.

more common than not, with like rock bands. It's the other way around. They're usually writing really cool songs, but they, they don't know how to get that recorded, or, or they're, they haven't figured out the performance side or vice versa. Like there's all these different combinations and different combinations within the band even as well.

So yeah, figuring out your strengths and weaknesses is kind of step number one.

[00:07:35] Benedikt: 100%. Another very popular example when it comes to the DIY thing is Billie Eilish, for example. So they, she always, like when people talk about self produced stuff or DIY stuff, she always comes up and rightfully so. so in her case, you can argue whether or not she's the best singer or, or, you know, performer, whatever.

Like that's, yeah, it's up to you to decide. And it's the taste thing as well. But I don't think it's like her, her superpower is necessarily to be the [00:08:00] best singer in the world. But, I, I also don't think she's like, she needs to be the best engineer or whatever, but she really found her thing, her vibe, her style.

She is creative. She found a way of like making records and sounding a certain way that only she really does. And she and her brother, basically the two doing it, who did it together. They got something going for them. They, they have a vibe and a certain thing that it's unique and it's successful. It resonates with a lot of people and it's awesome.

however, they, they self produced, some of the records, but they didn't mix them. Maybe they do now. I don't know. But in the beginning when they got really successful. they actually outsourced the mixing part. So yes, they produced it in their bedroom, but someone else mixed it. Like a very, very good mixer, who knows, people who know what they're doing, mixed and mastered it.

So this was not their strength. And maybe they don't need to be, you know, absolutely perfect singers in terms of technique or whatever, but the way she performs it, it does, it has a vibe the way she and her brother produced it and came up with sounds. That's their [00:09:00] superpower, like the creative thing. But then there's other things they don't have to do themselves.

[00:09:03] Malcom: And. it's, it's, this is almost, this is true for almost everyone. I love that example. Cause I mean, I haven't heard. And he says rough mixes before those like breakout songs got professionally mixed and I bet they were good like he's really talented, you know, extremely one of the best, but I bet they weren't at that level, you know, like that, like those recordings made in a little bedroom on the worst set up ever sound pro, like they sound really like people like it a lot.

and, and I bet that like, you know, the, the, the mix engineer, they chose who I'm totally blanking on who it was right now, honestly.

[00:09:40] Benedikt: Me too.

[00:09:41] Malcom: That was the perfect choice and they nailed it. Right. And it took it to that level that was required to be, you know, the most successful artists in the world that year.

[00:09:49] Benedikt: Yes, absolutely. And, and even if the, his rough mixes were good enough, maybe he was just lacking the perspective, you know, maybe it was just the outside perspective that was needed because he was too close to [00:10:00] it. And so they needed someone else to bring, you know, something fresh to the table, whatever it is.

it definitely worked. And so, you don't have to be good at everything. there's people who can do it all, but like, and everything in between. So we're gonna, we're gonna talk about this now. what are those three approaches really quick? The three approaches that I'm talking about are. Approach.

Number one is the done for you way, where you hire someone who does everything for you except being the artist and performing, right? So you can just hire pros for recording, engineering, producing, mixing, mastering and all, and, and maybe even writing or co-writing, whatever, how like you can outsource almost everything.

And all you you do is be the musician, be the, the star, the, the band. So that's one way to go about it the other way. And that, that is, if you have good songs, if you are a good musician and, and you focus on being really great at that, because that's where it all starts, starts. Right. Then that approach totally works.

And it always has, and always will like building a great team around you and focusing on being the best musician you can be, or the [00:11:00] best writer or both. Definitely works as a way to go about it. approach number two, do it all yourself. Like just do it, do everything yourself. Don't hire anyone for anything.

figure it out through YouTube books, courses, a lot of trial and error and a lot of practice can work as well, has worked for me, took a long, long, long time was very painful. And I am willing to bet that most people won't be able to stick through this until they get really good, because it's like, it just takes forever.

but it's, it's an approach. It can work. Approach number three. It's where you hire someone or you work under someone or you collaborate with someone in any way. Who helps you avoid the most common mistakes. make sure you get there faster, gives you the information you actually need, gives you, you know, feedback and guidance, but you still implement it yourself.

That's kind of the hybrid where you get, it's a typical coaching situation. Where, it's the equivalent of like you go to the gym and just figure it out or you hire a personal trainer tells you exactly what to [00:12:00] do and you get there faster, right? And so, so that's that, that's the third approach. And then there's sort of a hybrid thing where, as we said, you could hire out some things, practice other things, get help with some, some things in terms of guidance, coaching, whatever.

So there's these in between solutions, of course, but bottom line, the most important thing you do realize is. That you got to ask yourself, which kind of investment are you willing to make because you got to do something, even if you hire out everything, you got to be the best musician you can possibly be.

And that's that's in and of itself is quite the task, right? So, you know, so just you have to do something. Some kind of effort, practice and investment is always required. It's you got to remember that making records like producing and engineering and mixing is a skill. Yeah. That professionals, like they have built that over decades.

Like they've built their taste, their technical abilities, their workflows, their confidence, their ears, tools, all of that, like over decades, it's, we often forget that these days, because it always seems like you see a YouTube video. [00:13:00] Someone promises you to like watch these three videos and then you'll be, you can make your, like the perfect sounding record.

It's just not true. It's, it's a profession. It's a job, a skill. People have to really learn that and put in the hours to get really good. and so we can't expect to just somehow be able to do that overnight, but sometimes it seems like that's the expectation. It seems like people think, okay, let's buy some gear.

And the first time we're going to use that gear with our band, we're going to make a really cool record, like. That's probably not what's, what's going to, what's going to happen, right? And you compare it, you can compare that to any other skilled job. So imagine you want to be a doctor. like this is a pretty extreme example, of course, but for sure, there's probably books and videos and whatever out there and you could buy whatever tools a doctor uses.

And then you can probably learn how to, you know, all kinds of things. But it will be, it will take a long, long time, if it ever happens, that you can become like a good doctor. but how, if you work under, like, if you have a mentor, if you actually learn that properly and you do what doctors do when they become [00:14:00] doctors, you'll be working alongside someone or under someone for a long time, gradually getting more responsibility, you know, practicing, learning the theory and all of that.

And eventually you'll become really good at this. in our job, there is no life on the line luckily, but like, still it's a skill. It's a profession. It feels like it. Yeah. It's still a profession that you have to learn over time. Like with any sort of thing, I can, you can't expect to just buy some tools and then build a car, right?

It's like any, like anything. So, some sort of effort

[00:14:27] Malcom: I got something I would like to

[00:14:28] Benedikt: Yes.

[00:14:29] Malcom: I think we should do because you gave an overview of what those different options are, but I want to do a pros and cons on each. and, and something I want to point out is that Benny and I are proponents of all of these options actually. And we have, we can back that up.

You know, we, we both offer our services professionally for option one, like, so you can hire us to mix your song or master your song. Okay. and Benny's even going to produce something soon, which he hasn't done in ages. Like, so it's like, we are professionals for hires. We're proponents of that. We have this.

Podcast with [00:15:00] over 200 episodes now of just information trying to help you learn to do it yourself. Option two, right? Do everything yourself. We provide the tools to do that on our YouTube channels individually and on this podcast together.

[00:15:13] Benedikt: And we have courses that we offer. We partner with other platforms. Like that we,

[00:15:17] Malcom: well, I would call that option three where, you know, you're getting guidance and assistance to get you across the line. And that is, you know, Benny's one on one coaching. that is our paid courses. That is like, you know, You know, hiring somebody to just get hiring somebody or a resource to get the job

[00:15:36] Benedikt: I I'm sorry. I want to say though that I honestly think maybe we might disagree here I honestly put the books and courses even though you pay for it I would put that in category two because it's still do it yourself you you consume information And then, you know, you know, you, you have to apply it or not, but you've got to do it yourself.

The done with you, I would say is really when, when a person is actually providing guidance and feedback and can correct you if you go wrong. That's how [00:16:00] I thought about it actually. So,

[00:16:01] Malcom: I think you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're, you're, you're right. It's, it's like a option 2. 5 is investing in yourself to get it done

[00:16:08] Benedikt: supercharged option two option two.

[00:16:10] Malcom: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. And then, yeah, option three being the mentorship, which, which Benny, of course, offers with the self recording band. And, yeah.

And, you know, taking it that the hands on personal approach, which was kind of how what I did with my internship really needed how I got into this industry period kind of thing. what was our option for? Oh, yeah, the fill out individual thing. You could do both. But yeah, so I want to do. Yeah, essentially say that Benny and I.

Believe and, and, and like put our money where our mouth is on all of these options, because we believe they're all possible and, and, and potentially the right option for you. but there's pros and cons to every single one of them. So, so first option, done for you, hire professionals. What are, what are some pros and cons?

[00:16:56] Benedikt: Okay. So first I want to say to add to that what you just said there is like, I can [00:17:00] also back it up that I think all of those three things are good options because I've gone through all of them and still do. And I know that all of those worked. And as, as you said, there are pros and cons, but like I started out with the complete, like do it yourself approach.

And I was actually pretty delusional and thought I can just figure it out and it won't be long until I make like super amazing records. Turns out. took a long time, years of practice failing, realizing that my stuff that I thought sounded great was actually sounding crappy. and then after years of being stubborn and still wanting to figure it out on my own without paying for anything, without getting help.

Years into it, I, for the first time worked with a professional who like helped me, like that person mixed the record and I produced the record and engineered it. And that person really guided me through the process, helped me drastically improve my raw, like the source recordings that I made with that band.

And then when I heard the mixes that came back, I clearly realized that I wouldn't have been able to do that. And so. That's where it clicked. And I was like, I should surround myself more with people like that and get actual guidance of [00:18:00] people who know how to do it and who've done it themselves. Then I started buying books, taking courses, like that was my entry and like investing into myself.

And then obviously made more progress and progress faster. also was stubborn enough to stick with it, like for years and got a lot of practice in, which is always a big one. Like many people don't do that, but I did day and night. And then eventually turned it. I started getting coaching, hiring, you know, be it for the business or other things in life.

I just, I just realized the value of like that personal guidance and feedback and the coaching and all of that. So I've done all of it and it all worked. there's just, as you said, different pros and cons. And like you said, Malcolm, that's an interesting thing to coaching or like getting a mentor doesn't mean necessarily getting into a coaching program and paying for that.

It could mean it. Starting a job as an intern or assistant somewhere, it could mean offering help in exchange, you know, trading services or doing some adding some sort of value to someone else who then you can learn from whatever agreement you can make there. But [00:19:00] that's how many people got into this industry.

They were starting as like runners or interns. And got their mentorship that way. So different ways, but same thing applies. So yeah, pros and cons.

[00:19:10] Malcom: Pros and cons.

[00:19:11] Benedikt: Done for you. what, what, Oh, no. Yeah. Let's start with done for you. What are some pros and cons there? pros. I think if you, if your answer to the first question, like, is it important to you, like, do you want to make a really good record for your band or yourself now?

Is that's the main goal. You want a good record now you want it out fast and done as good as possible. And you focus on your career as a musician or band. I'd say that's a big pro here. Like that's the way to go because. No other solution will be that fast and, and good and reliable. Like if you want it now or in the next few months or so, go hire pros, focus on making the best songs and playing them well and let others handle the rest.

That's the only way you're going to get a really professional sounding record. Yeah,

[00:19:53] Malcom: yeah, it is first pro first foremost, fast. Let's go this alternate pros and cons con [00:20:00] expensive by far the most expensive option, most likely, unless you have a really bad gear problem on your do yourself method.

[00:20:07] Benedikt: but it's likely going to be the most expensive if you really, if you do it right, because that's the other thing, hiring a pro doesn't mean hiring your, you know, the person down the street or your buddy who offers it or whatever it means, like really hiring pros, like getting a truly professional result and no matter what, what you're thinking or what you're going to tell me, I know that some people are going to comment saying like they got a mix for 50 bucks or whatever.

No, that's not what we're talking about. Hiring a true like professional. Producer, mixing engineer, mastering engineer, all of that, you will pay anywhere. But like I'd say, if you put, if you hire out, you know, everything and you get a producer who does everything or a team of producers, you'll pay a thousand, you know, dollars per song or more probably.

And, you know, making a full album is going to be five figures investment. That's totally normal. and the sky's the limit, so it's not something that you can just have for very cheap, [00:21:00] but it's be, it's guaranteed if you find the right people, that you get great results and yeah. And don't be surprised if the thousand per song is, is not possible even.

So it could be 2000 or more or whatever, who you hire. So it's totally normal. It doesn't matter, but it's like, it's going to be a significant investment and probably the most expensive approach. Yeah.

[00:21:16] Malcom: Yeah, yeah. And the next biggest pro worth mentioning is like reliability. Like it's probably it's got the highest percentage of being a successful product at the end of it because all of these have a risk of actually still not turning out good and hiring professionals that know how to get that result and that you've chosen based on your sound and the sound you're going for.

That's going to give you the highest likelihood of actually pulling this off as a successful project.

[00:21:45] Benedikt: Another pro would be if you. If you use the time that you now have, because you're not having to learn how to record a produce and all of that. If you put that towards becoming a better musician and practicing better and preparing better for the session, I think that's a pro too. You'll become [00:22:00] a better band, a better musician.

You'll be, you know, skill set will be more narrow, but you'll be better at being a musician or band or writer, whatever. So this is a pro too. I think spreading your attention, you know, across many different things, always a little problematic, but this way you can just do what you're supposed to do as a musician and do it very well.

[00:22:20] Malcom: Yeah. you are getting the best people for the best for their job kind of thing. so yeah, you're, you're filling up the, there's no weak spots in the chain if you do this

[00:22:29] Benedikt: Totally in terms. Yeah, totally. In terms of cons, I'd say there's not only financial cons. There is, you have to be the type of person who can actually collaborate with others. Well, meaning some people just have such a strong vision that no matter who they work with. They are having a hard time, you know, getting the record that they really want to make just because they are so they are the producer themselves.

Actually, they don't know how to do it really, but they want to do it. They want all the control. They are having a hard time letting go. And that's okay. Like if that's you. It's [00:23:00] going to be more difficult for you to find someone who really gets your vision, who really gets your band. And,it might be a better solution for you to just become the producer and learn how to do it properly.

because that will ultimately give you the record you want to make because no one, at the end of the day, no one knows your band and what you want to do better than you. And depending on how flexible you are there, it might or might not be a good idea to do it yourself, or hire out, the whole thing.

So this is one con like the whole creative. Sort of getting the visions aligned sort of thing. this is, this could be a con. The other con

[00:23:30] Malcom: You

[00:23:31] Benedikt: oh sorry, yeah.

[00:23:31] Malcom: lose control. Yeah. Yeah. There's a certain amount of control that you have to give up. And in fact, you should give up in this scenario. you're, you have to be comfortable with that and you have to trust that the team you've chosen is going to deliver what, what you hoped for. And, cause you can't, you can't make somebody do it how you would do it.

It's just not possible.

[00:23:50] Benedikt: exactly. the next con that I could think of would be scheduling and the pressure, basically, that you have when you hire others to do certain things. So, if you agree to do [00:24:00] that, You'll have to be ready at a certain time. You have to deliver things at a certain time. You've got to be prepared. You don't want to waste anyone's time in the studio session or all of those things.

So if you have a very busy life or a very unpredictable life, things come up all the time. Life gets in the way all the time. If you're that type of person or you're not just not very structured, it might be hard for you to make that work because those people, they will block time for you on their calendars.

And if you don't show up or you're not prepared. it's, it can be very problematic. It can either cost a lot more or it can delay the whole project a lot or, you know, all kinds of things. So, and you gotta be able to perform under pressure as well. If you book like studio sessions, not everyone is comfortable being in the studio, you know, and, and like kind of having the sensation of like a clock ticking basically.

so you have more freedom in terms of time when you do it on your own, you can make it fit into your life. You're not dependent on another person's schedule. That's also a thing. So you also have to kind of work around whatever the availability of the process that you [00:25:00] hire. So there's definitely a con there when it comes to freedom and scheduling.

The pro there, however, is that you might not ever do it at all if you're completely on your own. So there's also pro because there is like an accountability factor, right? So some people need that pressure and that accountability to just get things done. So you got to know yourself, basically. But I can see that as a, as a con.

And I often hear talk to so many artists on our, clarity calls that we offer the free calls before anyone joins the coaching program. And a lot of the thing, like one of the most common things that they tell me is we've worked with producers before, or we tried to, but they just. Never really, they never really got our vision or it was always okay.

It sounded good, but never really exactly the way that we wanted it. Or the scheduling was like not really working. So we had to do comp make compromises or it turned out way more expensive, essentially planning issues, communication issues. And, and so I just know that for a certain type of person, it's, it's [00:26:00] hard to collaborate with pros.

That's what I'm trying to say.

[00:26:03] Malcom: Yeah, like vocalists are the, it's the most common thing that I hear about. It's like we just didn't have enough time to do the vocals to the level I wanted. You know, that's what like the singers saying that they wish they had more time to do their vocals and that is pretty common because of budget constraints in the higher it outset like scenario kind of thing.

You just only have so much in so many hours in the studio and then all of a sudden you're rushing things. so yeah, definitely. The, the pro being it's the fastest, but the con being that there's usually constraints that come along with that. I think we can move on to number two, do it yourself,

[00:26:35] Benedikt: Another con I have one more con, sorry, before we move on, I have one more, one more con, and that is. If you choose to do it with a team of professionals, you, you'd learn a lot, certainly, but you still are dependent on those people. So the next time you want to make a record, you still have to go to those people.

So the con would be your, yeah, you're not, you have to do that over and over again, basically, if that's what you [00:27:00] choose versus like learning it yourself in whatever way, enables you to use those skills over and over again. So you're investing in your record in the best possible record right now, which is awesome.

You're investing in yourself as a band basically by making the best record now through building the team, but you're not investing in your own skills when it comes to production engineering that you could use over and over again. So you have to make that sort of monetary investment and, and, and all the things that come with it.

You have to do that over and over again, as long as you stay with like professionals. To do this.

[00:27:30] Malcom: Kind of disagree here. I think that you will learn where the bar is in quality if you work with really high level professionals, but it is by far the most expensive way to learn those skills.

[00:27:41] Benedikt: Yeah. Everyone. I think everyone should go through it once if even if it's just for a single, I think the experience of working with pros is invaluable and everyone should do it at least once. Yes. Just as you said, to learn where the bar is to learn what's acceptable, what's not like all those things like it's so many other things like I think it's an [00:28:00] invaluable experience to have to work with a team of pros at least once But then it's up to you if you want to continue that forever, or you want to change direction.

Yeah.

[00:28:07] Malcom: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. okay. So do it yourself. so many pros, so many cons. So, so many cons. Um, like, I think everybody should be a little bit of an option to person. even if you do an option one, even if you're doing option C

[00:28:28] Benedikt: Always learning.

[00:28:29] Malcom: like, You always need to be learning, and even if you have no intention of getting really good at it, why not learn some of it so you can better communicate it and understand it.

Like, option two is mandatory for the modern musician, for the modern entrepreneur. It's just, you have to at least know what's going on in every area. And the biggest pro in that, is beyond, of course, just learning skills, is that I think you'll probably discover what you love. because nobody knows what they actually like until they do it.[00:29:00] 

So you might find out, Hey, I love producing records, or I like mixing. I like engineering. Maybe you like editing drums or tuning vocals like a freak, maybe. You don't know until you get to try and learn it kind of thing. So I really encourage everybody to want to do it all, but hopefully realize that they're not going to be good at all of it and either need to get help, which we'll talk about an option three, or, higher help in option one.

[00:29:27] Benedikt: Yes, what 100 percent basically nothing to add here. I mean, the thing with

[00:29:32] Malcom: mean, if we're.

[00:29:32] Benedikt: yeah,

[00:29:34] Malcom: Well, I was gonna say if we're doing the pros and cons thing like con it's by far the slowest It's and it's it's threateningly slow in that most people that take option two here never finish a

[00:29:44] Benedikt: Never, like never, and they never get really good like that. What happened to me is that I still made it my job and made it happen. It's just because I'm incredibly stubborn. I can, I'm incredibly, I always say, like, I'm very good at suffering. That's also, I'm good at running long distances and stuff. It's the same [00:30:00] skill.

Honestly, it's like a superpower that I, I have really, I think of that, like that because, it was painful. It was not, not nice. Like I, I didn't make any money. I was like struggling all the time I was working. 10 to 15 hour days, every day, seven days a week, all the time, trying to get all the information, practicing, failing, working with all kinds of local bands and shitty artists, and like, I was doing everything I could to figure it out, but I didn't really have a plan, and I tried to do it all myself, without feedback, without guidance, without anything, without anything.

And most people wouldn't do that for a long time. Most people would quit and, and it's totally understandable if you quit because it's not nice to do it that way. And, and so, yeah, it just takes a long, long time. And also, even if you are like that and you can push through that. you could still fail just because you're working in your own , bubble in like a vacuum, you don't have the outside perspective and the feedback, maybe you're only all, all you ever work on is your own music, or maybe three of your friends with their bands, and you [00:31:00] don't really get the variety of material to work on the different situations and all of the like, even if you spend all the time and do all of that, you still might not get good just because what you have available is so limited, and you are always in your vacuum.

So option two is really hard to make work. Yeah. and, and eventually if you really want it, you will transition out of that into one of the other, options like, like, yeah, it's almost, almost guaranteed that you will, I'm not saying it can't work. And I love all the education that is available to us now.

Like, don't get me wrong. That's why we do this podcast and I love YouTube and I read all the time. I, as Malcolm said, like we do that still as much as we can. We love learning and improving, but we do it on top of other things that get us results faster. And, so I love all of that. I love that it's available to us, but I don't think that only doing that and trying to just somehow figure it out is going to lead to exceptional results, like in any other profession.

Like I said, you can't think of any specialized skill, any, any profession, that you, that people put a lot, put in a lot of time and energy to learn. [00:32:00] none of that just works by just trying to figure it out. You have to do it properly. You have to learn it properly. There's no other way.

[00:32:06] Malcom: Yeah, yeah, and you're going to run into something that you suck at

[00:32:11] Benedikt: Yeah.

[00:32:11] Malcom: And it's really if you're dead set on doing it yourself without help, like how do you get past that? You probably don't right you probably just get frustrated that it doesn't sound the way you want to give up and it's yeah so like it's really be you have to be a special type of person to go down that I'm going to do it entirely by myself and not ask for help

[00:32:31] Benedikt: exactly.

[00:32:31] Malcom: scenario

[00:32:32] Benedikt: Also, another very common thing that people tell me on those calls, by the way, and also in the, the, the, the coaching program and the case study interviews that we've done is. You don't know what you don't know. So you don't even know what, where the problems are and what you're actually struggling with.

And when you look at all the options on YouTube, you don't even know which of those videos you actually need, what applies to your situation. And it's completely like, it's not curated in any way. It's like, so, so [00:33:00] how do you even know what applies to you? You can just hope that it works or you have to do so much trial and error and like figure it out the hard way.

because nobody's telling you what you actually need. And if you don't know what you don't know, then you can't solve it. Right. So

[00:33:12] Malcom: Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to give pros for this category because in option three, all of the pros that we would give option two here applied option three and, and, and they're better.

[00:33:27] Benedikt: yeah, absolutely. So the, the only pro would be like, if your scenario is that it's clearly a hobby, you have other things in life that are more important to you, but you'll love doing it because you enjoy it. You're not really worried about the result. It doesn't have to be a super great record, but you, it's something you've just made.

You can be. I mean, you can be proud of and all of that, and it's fun, but it's not necessary for you that, or not important for you that it really sounds amazing, then I think it's great, like any other hobby, you know, like it's totally fine, if you have time, if it doesn't have to happen right now, and if, if the outcome is not as important to you, then for [00:34:00] sure, that's.

Like have fun. Why not? Right. but as soon as your goals get a little more ambitious, a little more serious, or if you just don't have the time to put in the work for like the next 10 years, then, it's like, yeah, it's not your option. So

[00:34:15] Malcom: yeah, I guess the biggest pro we can definitely assign to it is that it is by far the most affordable

[00:34:19] Benedikt: yes, absolutely.

[00:34:21] Malcom: option to is the most affordable. and we won't go down the rabbit hole of, yeah. Debating if it's worth buying enough preamps and mics to do drums and stuff

[00:34:28] Benedikt: Yeah. That's the other thing. Like, oh, good point though, because many of the people who use this option. do it because they rather spend the money they have or the budget they have on gear and think that this is more important. So that's actually very common. So people will skip the education part or the hiring out part, hiring professionals, but we'll spend all the money on 15 guitars, preamps, expensive interfaces and whatnot.

And so if you're doing that, You might consider investing in yourself instead because that's the better [00:35:00] investment always. So yeah, that you're totally right. Like, there's this, this type of person as well, for sure.

All right, so option three then Done with you. Done with you. Yeah. So this could mean, doing something like the self recording syndicate, our coaching program. This is the most obvious solution that I, that I can, think of now, because that's what we do here. What we offer. It's our core offer at the self recording band. We guide you through the entire process of making a record from writing, arranging to recording, preparing for the session, setting up your instruments, getting source tones, microphone techniques, the actual recording session, get the most out of the musicians in the room.

Then consolidating takes editing them, mixing them, mastering them, the whole thing, start to finish. We guide you through all of that. And if you decide to outsource parts of it, we're not cover that. We, you can do that. And we focus on other things more. If you want to do the whole thing, we guide you through the whole thing, whatever you need.

It's personalized guidance and coaching, much like a personal trainer that you hire if you want to get in shape. [00:36:00] And we avoid, we help you avoid the most common mistakes. If you are moving in the wrong direction, we're there to course correct and help you and give you feedback. we, you know, it's like you have to do it yourself, you have to implement it yourself, but you don't do it in a vacuum and you don't do it like through just trial and error, but you do it intentional.

We give you the information that you really need. It's curated. It's only what you really need. You have a clear next step. you get the feedback so you know that what you're doing actually works or doesn't. if there is a thing that you clearly shouldn't do because you only have so much time or you're just not good at it, you don't enjoy it, whatever, then we'll give a recommendation of who do to outsource that to whatever your situation is.

But at the end of the day, we'll make sure that you get there. We'll make sure that you get from where you are right now to where you want to be in a certain amount of time. and this is what done for you looks like if you hire a coach, it could also look like something you've done, Malcolm, where you work, with someone or under someone.

in a studio, like you work with a [00:37:00] producer, you be, you're a fly on the wall and they maybe give you some, like, you know, you spent more time with them and then you get more responsibility or they let you do some, some tasks like maybe you explain how that worked for you, but this is a different

[00:37:11] Malcom: mean, that's a way of doing it for a different goal, right? Like getting an internship at a studio is how you get good at making records, but not necessarily how you make your own record.

[00:37:19] Benedikt: Yeah.

[00:37:20] Malcom: so, so different goal. But like, I think the scenario of this podcast is how like you want to make your own record in 2024.

You want to record your own music. and yeah, getting any as a coach is like probably the smartest way you're going to learn the most. but still be account like held accountable for deadlines and, and then you're also going to have the context through a professional telling you like where the bar is and where your strengths and weaknesses are as well.

So it's a whole multitude of good things there. I guess the only thing we kind of skipped over was our 2. 5 option of

[00:37:57] Benedikt: Yeah. Let's get to

and stuff like that, because [00:38:00] those are, they're, I mean, they're great. Benny, Benny and I buy too many courses. I've got courses that I haven't even opened. yeah, it's true.

[00:38:07] Malcom: so course the advantage of buying courses, or like, you know, education is that, it's curated in that probably it should be curated in that case, you know, if you buy a mixing course, it's because you like the song that they're mixing in it.

And, and that you want to learn that type of mixing, you know, for example, so it's curated in that way. But the problem is that nobody tells you if you did a good job learning it, right? so you're, you're still lacking that context. That's where like something like a mentor or coaching comes in. It's like the whole picture that way.

[00:38:36] Benedikt: absolutely. Also, what, what's cool about the 2. 5 option though, is even if it were, if, even if it's the same content, like, let's just say it would be the same content that you also found on, you could also find on YouTube. Let's say you could find the same things you could put together your own sort of course by, you know, finding the right YouTube videos and going through them.

And then you had the same thing packaged up in a course that you [00:39:00] bought. You are way more likely to be successful and like actually implement the stuff and get results through buying the same thing because you've invested in it. There's a saying, like if people are paying, they're paying attention and it's, it's very, very true.

If I, even if it's just a small amount, if I personally spend. 50 bucks or a hundred bucks or 500 bucks on something. I, even if I really don't want to do it, I will probably just do it and watch the videos and do the exercises just because I spent money on it. And I don't want this, you know, I just, I just want a return.

I just want this to work. However, if someone exactly, and if someone gives me a free course, even if it's super amazing, or if I find something on YouTube. It's cool and all, but I don't feel the need to actually put in the work because like there's just some, yeah, I don't know what it is, but I've watched so many awesome YouTube videos and honestly, if I did everything that I've learned in those videos, I'd be probably be a multimillionaire at this point, but I have, you know, I've probably, I probably would have like 10 businesses and whatever, like I've [00:40:00] had so many, I've seen so many really awesome ideas and strategies and ways like I would have.

Yeah. Or I would be, I would probably be the best guitar player that I could be, but I'm not, because I saw, I've seen those videos and I know what, what would potentially work, but I didn't act on it. I didn't put in the action. So

[00:40:16] Malcom: I mean, it can be the difference between. entertaining yourself and educating yourself, right? and when you open up a course that is built to get you a result, you know, I bought the mixes unpacked course to learn how to mix how this song was mixed. Like you, you're going through it with that intention, not just, Hey, this kind of like, I like this creator.

What are they talking about? You know, that's, that's entertainment at that point, which is again, not bad. but it's like a passive learning versus an active learning thing.

[00:40:44] Benedikt: yes, 100%. Yeah. So it's good to invest in yourself, even if it's just for the accountability. So the 2. 5 option is really, is really an option. That's why we also offer courses. and then with the whole guided thing, there's also a kind of a hybrid there where [00:41:00] you can, you can, for example, buy a course, like there are, for example, courses out there where you buy a course, but then there's maybe a coaching part of it where the, you know, they offer, you know, a weekly group call or some way of like getting access to the educator, being able to ask questions or comment below.

So for example, if you buy one of our courses. You can comment below the modules and I'll answer it. I will help you. So it's not the same as like getting coaching and I will not spend like all day jumping on calls with you or like doing the same things I do with the coaching thing students, but you still have some sort of access to me.

And there's still like a little bit of an element of guidance there. which is also great. And. And so yeah, there's all kinds of hybrid methods. Same for the done with you method. like, let's say you want to, let's say you want to have someone mix your record, but you want to produce it yourself and engineer it yourself, then there's, for example, what we do at the studio here, and I'm sure you've done the same in the past, Malcolm, where someone hires you to do a mix, But then you also help them [00:42:00] through making the most out of the, like the recording sessions, getting the best source tracks, maybe helping them set up their studio, their, their jam space, helping them with the acoustics or how, where to place absorbers, or, you know, you do everything you can to make the end result better.

So that often means that we coach. The artists we're working with during the recording process. And then we take over from the mixing process. So that's the hybrid between like coaching and, and mixing. So this is also a way to go about it. So it's, it's, it all comes down to like knowing what your strengths are, knowing what you actually want to learn and, and, and what makes sense to learn, what you can do based on time and budget and all of that.

And then, Knowing what your goal is and yeah. And then just putting it to action, honestly, like there's all kinds of different solutions for these different scenarios that you were in. And the, the one question that we had in the beginning where we said, do you want to become a producer mixer and make amazing records for other artists?

If that is a yes for you, then. I'd say the [00:43:00] whole do it yourself with just your own music and your buddies isn't an option at all, because then you have to find other material to work on. You have to get like any, like some, some type of mentorship or like help from, from someone because yeah, it's going to be very, very hard to just figure it out on your own.

That's what would happen to me. And I eventually had to. Ask others for help because otherwise it wouldn't have worked. So this is, these are my thoughts on all of this.

[00:43:24] Malcom: A hundred percent. I wish I had heard this earlier in my career

[00:43:28] Benedikt: Yeah, me too. Me too. Me too. Honestly.

[00:43:31] Malcom: I like I did have, you know, a mentor by having an intern internship. So that was like hugely beneficial. But I was also kind of delusional and being like, I can do it all. So I'm going to produce, engineer, edit and mix and master like most of the gigs I took.

And well, that worked out in the end because I eventually learned how to mix. You know reliably and consistently there was I don't like going back too far into my catalog and listening to some of those mixes man I like I'm like man if you know, I did a good job engineering producing this. Why didn't I just get it mixed?[00:44:00] 

Damn it

[00:44:01] Benedikt: Exactly.

[00:44:01] Malcom: know It's and I could have worked on my mixing on my own or whatever, you know until I was like ready to do that So I wish I had played to my strengths more

[00:44:10] Benedikt: Yeah. But you didn't know what you don't, what you didn't know. And so for me, the same thing, I thought I was able to, to, to mix that and, and, but I was not, and, but I didn't know it. And so later you figure, uh, Not the best idea that I mixed that. And actually I have a someday maybe list that I sort of keep where I put, I put things on that list that are not like really mission critical, not really important, but if I ever get to it, it's like a nice to have thing.

it's not a real goal, but like, yeah, it's just my someday maybe list. And on that list, there are several records that I've made in the past, like 15, 20 years ago, when I, when I started, when I was a teenager or like. in like early 20s, before I really started to, to make professional sounding stuff.

There are a few records on there that I wish I could like remix at like one day. And I hope I can still [00:45:00] recover those, those multitracks and stuff, because part of me wants to go back and like do those songs justice and make them, make them great. So,

[00:45:08] Malcom: hear you. Yep.

[00:45:10] Benedikt: And you know, if that's your band, your own band, it can be painful.

It can be a painful realization at some point because who knows how many records you're going to make. So like most bands make one, two records, maybe three, but like, that's, that's already a lot. And so. If you are in your band right now, just realize you won't be, you probably won't be doing this forever and you don't wanna look back at the time you were in this band and be like, man, I just wish us stuff sounded better.

You know? Those are the types of people that come back to me in their sixties now or something in the coaching, which we have a, a few people like that, which I love, but they come to me being in their sixties or just retired from work or whatever, and they're like, Hey, I had the span when I was young, but we never really captured the, the stuff properly.

And it was also harder back then, of course. Um, and like, I just wish these songs would exist in a, like a, in a way where like it would do the songs justice. Like they would, they, [00:46:00] they, I want them to sound great and I want to leave this legacy. And so they come back after decades wanting to do those songs properly because it's just, it's just, yeah, it's important to them.

And so realize that this could be you. And. There's record you're, you're about to make might be the only one that you make with your band or maybe you do another one then, but then that's it. And if you don't do it right, that opportunity is gone and now the records are like that forever and you're going to hate that at some point.

So

[00:46:26] Malcom: Yes, you're such a good

[00:46:27] Benedikt: yeah, it's like, it's really like that. It's not that you have forever to do this or to learn this. So, so, if you want to make a great record anytime soon, get help, like hire pros or get a mentor, get coaching, invest in yourself. But know that there's only these few ways to make a good record and option two is the one that is the least likely you could pull it off, but it's very unlikely.

It's very hard and it takes very long. So there's really only two ways to make a really good record anytime soon, and that's just the reality. And if you look at any of the stuff that you [00:47:00] love that you listen to, those people did one of those things. They got really, they definitely put in the time to get really good at something.

They hired out the stuff that they couldn't do themselves. And they invested in themselves in some way, shape or form, but they certainly didn't just sit around, watch YouTube and did a bunch of trial and error until it worked. That's not how those records were made. Not at all. It's. So

[00:47:23] Malcom: Yeah. Yeah. And, and like, we, we alluded to an option four of like, wait, you're doing all of these. And, and that is that like, again, if you hire somebody like Benny to be your coach and mentor and get you through this, he's going to probably end up recommending something like that. You know, like you'll, you'll want to learn it all, but like, Yeah.

It's like, okay, hey, you want to make a song and you don't have a drummer. Okay. Well, let's hire you a drummer or let's learn how to program drums, you know, like we're going to source that problem until it's solved, you know, and, and like, so that's the dream scenario, I think is like learn passively or actively everything, but then [00:48:00] still.

Find the best solution for the job, and, and get it taken care of that way. And if you're listening to this, you probably have an interest in like self producing, you know, like that's the, I would say most of our audience wants to learn how to record and, and be in control of their project. And that's awesome.

But it probably still means like, you know, maybe you need to outsource some editing or a session player for one of the instruments or something like that, or maybe it's the mixing, you know, as, as we commonly preach. So the, the, the answer probably is option four where you're doing all of these.

[00:48:31] Benedikt: 100 percent Yeah, and if you're listening to this podcast regularly, or if you made it this far through this episode, then you are already ahead of many people and you're already it shows that you're that this is important to you, you've already invested in yourself by just spending the time to listen to this.

It's important enough for you to do this. you're already hooked kind of, you know, there's something that fascinates you about making a record, learning how to do it or doing it right. And so all you got to do now is figure out how important is it really? [00:49:00] Which resources do I have? Do I have more time?

Do I have more money? when do I want this to happen? What's the gap between where I am and where I want to be, and then find a solution that works for you. All you need to do now is like. Ask yourself these questions, come up with a plan and then just follow through, but you're all, you've already started.

You already ahead of many, many people who just still sit around and dream without starting to learn. Right? So, there's also something I want to say and about the, the option for saying welcome. This is actually what a lot of people in our coaching do. So we just, had a project recently where. One of the coaching students hired another one, actually also someone from our coaching program, which is really interesting and cool to see to like do a collaboration like they hired like the one person hired the other person as a producer because they wanted outside perspective and they wanted the type of vibe that the other person could bring to the table and then they wanted real drums.

That they couldn't do, but like neither of them that could do it. So, I recommend it. Like you said, I recommended the session [00:50:00] drummer and now that drummer Mickey from Germany is amazing. He's one of the most like, yeah, in demand live drummers at the moment in Germany, but also a great session drummer in the studio.

So I connected them, he tracked drums for them, they love it. And so, yeah, this is exactly what we do. We have another example where someone went through the entire program, thinking he wants to do it himself with guidance, then realized, well, I actually don't want to do all of it, or at least I want to at least once experience the, you know, professional way of making a record.

And so even though he got through the whole program, He still hired me to, that's the record that I'm going to be producing very soon. He hired me to produce a record with him, hire session musicians, outsource the mastering even like build a full team of specialists basically. and, and we're going to do this together.

So we have session musicians. I will be producing and mixing. We have Thomas who will be editing. We have a mastering engineer who will be the mastering. And, yeah, so that person did it all.

[00:50:55] Malcom: the team's there. Awesome.

[00:50:57] Benedikt: And so this person started with YouTube [00:51:00] and free stuff and books and trial and error. Then eventually, I don't know if he bought courses, but maybe then he got into the coaching and then he decided he still wants to do the full pro thing.

So obviously depends on your budget. Not everyone can do that, but this,

[00:51:14] Malcom: That's like the ultimate most thought out fleshed out way of doing it. We should like insert the sound of an applause at the

[00:51:20] Benedikt: yeah,

[00:51:20] Malcom: right here.

[00:51:22] Benedikt: for sure. For sure. Yeah. So to sum it up really quickly and to give you. To actually give you a starting point for each of those options. you have these questions, they're going to be in the show notes and the description below. So you can review those, ask yourself these questions. Then you got the three approaches.

Also, they will be in the show notes and the episode, the description below the YouTube video of this. And now let's give you starting points for each of these. So option one done for you. Higher professionals, obviously there's not coming. I, we mix records, right? I usually don't produce anymore. So the fact that I'm producing this one record now is kind of,[00:52:00] yeah,

[00:52:01] Malcom: a

[00:52:01] Benedikt: an ex yeah, exactly.

It's an exception. It's a perfect storm. I I'm going to be in LA for the NAMM show anyways. And that's, that happens to be the time that this person wants to produce the record. So while I'm there, I'm just. staying in the US for a while, make the record there. It's a coaching student of mine. There's a lot of things come coming together that make this possible for me.

I usually don't produce anymore. However, I will guide people through the recording process and then mix the record. I got Thomas, my studio partner, who is a great, awesome editor, drum tech, session drummer. so he does all of that, then we master records, but we can also outsource that. So long story short, you can hire us to mix your record and, and find people for everything else.

Malcolm, you probably do the same. I don't know if you're still producing as well, but you're predominantly

[00:52:43] Malcom: not producing at all. I think I can't believe it's been years now. It's crazy. but yeah, I think the only thing that would convince me to, produce is like travel is like, okay, we want to go somewhere cool and make a record. Yeah, I'm into that the adventure and capturing the story of making a record at the same time.

That's like appealing to me. [00:53:00] But like, otherwise, no, I'm not producing anymore. I'm just just mixing and mastering. and then,

[00:53:05] Benedikt: if you're wondering, I have to say that because if people are wondering, like, how can we trust those people if they don't produce, like we've produced in the past professionally, a lot of records.

[00:53:13] Malcom: for a

[00:53:14] Benedikt: Yeah, exactly. So I've built, I'm sitting in my studio that I built for that purpose. Like in front of me is my live room, actually.

And I've made many records here and in other studios, so I definitely know what I'm talking about. And I try to keep it fresh by occasionally producing, so I'm, I'm not getting entirely like, I want to still know how it's, how, how to do it. And I want to be, stay fresh. And I,

[00:53:32] Malcom: I'm still engineering the stuff like, like on my own and whatnot all the time. And yeah. Yeah. Totally. and for the YouTube channel, whatnot, it's still totally relevant, but yeah, essentially Benny and I are mixers now. That's where we've landed in our careers. We've become full time mixers. and then, but like, so there's, there's those two options.

[00:53:51] Benedikt: Benny of course has the coaching, which is like the, you know, most recommended approach. , let's think like one at a time, like option one, option one options, higher [00:54:00] professionals, Malcolm and I are professionals for mixing. And we probably both capable of building a team for like all the other things that need to be done.

[00:54:06] Malcom: Totally. And honestly, if you're looking for a producer, you should still ask us. I bet we can find somebody for you. We know great producers, um, that we trust and, and a great producer will. Also help you find other things as well. Like, like that, that's something I've always valued in my, my own skillset is my Rolodex of the right person for the right job.

then I was like, I've got like a session player list that is just bang on every time.

[00:54:29] Benedikt: 100%. And if you look at the, our catalog of podcast episodes and the people we've interviewed, you'll get an idea of like how our network also expanded over the years. And we both have access to really awesome people in all kinds of genres and all kinds of things. So just ask us, we'll be able to put you in touch depending on your budget and everything.

But we know people period. And

[00:54:49] Malcom: Yeah. And, and yeah, connecting you with them is we'd love to for sure. so yeah, there's always that hiring place, but you, you know, you probably also know the good producers in your area, whatnot, that, [00:55:00] you know, they choose the person that's right for the job. It's really what it boils down to

[00:55:04] Benedikt: Approach number two, what are your options there? Of course, there's this podcast, there's Malcolm's YouTube channel. what's the name of the YouTube channel, by the way? Is it just Malcolm Owen Flood?

[00:55:12] Malcom: Malcom on flood. Google me.

[00:55:14] Benedikt: Awesome. We'll be in the show notes as well. Awesome. Especially if you're in pro tools, it's a very personal specific thing, right?

[00:55:19] Malcom: it's very pro tools heavy at the moment for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But like, but I think before we even get into pushing that, I think you should ask yourself, yeah. because option two is essentially, I'm going to learn a lot and you need to figure out what your learning style is as your first step. Do you learn by watching videos?

Is that how you like to learn things? Do you learn better by reading a book or by listening to a podcast? or, or taking courses or getting a lesson hands on with a real human being in a real space? You know, there's, these are all options. Um, getting music lessons. If you're trying to, you know, if you're dead set on recording your own drums, you're not a drummer, you're going to need some lessons.

You know, so, so figuring out how you learn is the first step [00:56:00] and then go from there. So like YouTube has been such a crazy discovery for me. I learned really well from tutorials in that way. So I've just found the educators that work for me, that have a teaching style that works for me. I subscribe to those channels and yeah, there's a couple of guys in like the camera niche that if they make a video, I'm watching it no matter what, because every single time I come out with something.

so find those people for, for what you're trying to do, curate your own experience on YouTube or whatever platform you're on.

[00:56:27] Benedikt: Yes. by the way, I know that some people said they, they like what we do here, but they are hesitant to reach out to me, for example, for coaching or courses or whatever, because. they see I'm working in Cubase and they have a different DAW, I just want to say that I hear you and we just changed that.

And we are now offering for our coaching students, we offer our tutorials, mix, mix walkthroughs and all kinds of things in all DAWs. So we're just really, we're buying all of the DAWs, installing them, learning them and teaching you inside your DAW, which is a massive undertaking and very difficult for us, but we've got [00:57:00] to

[00:57:00] Malcom: That is crazy, man.

[00:57:01] Benedikt: but we're going through this right now and it's fun. And, but it's, it's really the, the one thing that people always said, like, that's the one thing missing. I wish you could show me that in my DAW. And so we hear you, we make it happen, we go the extra mile, and so the DAW won't be a limiting factor anymore.

I'll be still a Cubase user, but I'm happy to teach you whatever you need to know in your DAW. And if I can't do it myself, again, I will bring in a specialist who can. I'm not thinking I can do everything in every DAW. If I can't help you, I know someone who can, and that person will show you. So,

[00:57:28] Malcom: Yeah. You'll get it done. And actually, you know what? That really does go to show something though. There's a takeaway there. And it's that once you learn a DAW, you kind of know how they all work. You know, you weren't not going to be as fluid, of course, but like, it's not rocket science. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:44] Benedikt: find your teaching style. And then, as starting points, we are, you know, Malcolm's YouTube channel, our YouTube channel, our podcast. if you sign up for our email list, I'm, I'm starting with like the easy starts that are like free. If you sign up for our email list, for example, so if you, if you download.

standout mixes, [00:58:00] for example. It's a completely free an hour long mixing guide with a checklist. if you can get that too, by going to the selfrecordingband. com slash standout mixes link will also be in the show notes. If you download that or any other of our free guides, you'll get weekly emails from me.

And at the beginning, you get a few a week, actually, the first week is going to be a sequence of valuable things that we send you. And those emails contain all kinds of free downloads, PDFs, articles. videos, template, overviews, whatever, like all the kinds of things that we put together that are completely free.

So that helps you actually find out your teaching style, basically, like, like assuming you like how we do things, but there is, stuff for people who like to read their stuff for people who like to watch videos. And then there's stuff for people who like to listen to a podcast like this. So we have all these options available, and if you sign up and you're on our email list, you're going to get a lot of free value.

All you have to do is like go through it and then implement it because there's no accountability. I will not check if you do it, it's up to you, but it's all at your fingertips completely for free. So there's, there's this, thing then, what we [00:59:00] can both recommend is a few books. For example, I'll do my best to put all of that in the show notes and give you all these resources.

There's Warren Hewitt's, you know, home recording book. That's a great starting point that I just purchased this year and it's great. there's a few other books that I personally like, and, and can recommend, there is a few courses that we sell and that others sell. So we have our, mix ready recording course that takes you all the way from start to where the mixing process starts.

So this is for the self recording bands that don't want to mix themselves. Everything until the mixing is covered there. then we have our everything bundle that includes. This plus our mixing courses mixes unpacked plus our drum editing course that on drums plus our guitar setup course by Diego Casillas.

it's the full thing covering everything. so we have those courses again, links will be in the show notes. And then we have like, We even promote other people's stuff just because we, we want to help you and believe in, in like the collaboration thing. So, we just had Kole on this podcast, Christian Kole, from Kole Keller studio, amazing.

So if [01:00:00] you are a metal artist, the metal band. And you want, you know, either the full subscription to his like audio cult that has like everything you could ever need in that, in that regard, in terms of courses, or if you just need a specialized thing, like learning how to EQ a snare drum or how to use bus compression or drum compression or whatever, you can buy individual courses that are very, very affordable and like fix specific bottlenecks.

And so if you want to do that, the link to that is in the show notes as well. Yeah, those were our options for approach number two.

[01:00:31] Malcom: real quickly want to just also shout out Kolei's, Kolei audio called YouTube channel. It's one of my favorite YouTube channels on, on music production for sure. I think honestly, even if you're not into metal, you'll

[01:00:41] Benedikt: Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. I think so too. Yeah. So there's these options free. And then our pay courses as well as coolest courses that we can recommend. And then there is, and by the way, if you could buy through these links, like full disclosure here, this is, these are affiliate links for the courses, for example, but at no extra cost to [01:01:00] you.

So we, you can support us at the podcast by buying through our link. But it's not going to cost you any extra. And in fact, if you do that before end of January, you even get a 10 percent discount. So we even have an offer for you. That's only available through us. if you sign up for one of the cola, cola, cola color studio courses, and also I think it even includes two.

Yeah, it does. It includes two free workshops from us as well from Malcolm and I. So look at the description. It's a lot. yeah. And then of course our own courses, as I said, and then option number three done with you. the starting point there is to apply for coaching and book a call. And what we do on this call is the goal of these calls is not to try and sell you our coaching because it's a longterm collaboration relationship.

I can only do this with people who are really a great fit because it doesn't make sense to spend a long time working with someone who doesn't want to be there or where it's not a great fit. So the goals of these calls is to figure out what a great solution looks like for you, and then to offer you that solution could be our own, could be someone else's could be.

Go do it on your own, whatever. But the goal is [01:02:00] to find the way to do it for you to uncover the truth, like to be honest, give you honest feedback, find out where your pain points are, what you're struggling with, where you currently are, what the gap is between where you are and where you want to go, and then offer you the best possible solution for that.

And I do my best to like, I review these applications and I try to only get on calls with people who might be a great fit for that, or who I think I can really help because I'm not an expert at everything. but if it turns out that you're not a great fit, I'm happy to recommend something else. So the goal is just to talk about your situation, give you the best possible advice, create a roadmap for you that will help you achieve your goal.

And then it's up to you if you take that or not.

[01:02:40] Malcom: Yeah. Like if you listened to this episode and resonated, it resonated with you and you're like, okay, I see what they're talking about. I need to figure out. What is right for me? There's no reason not to try and get on a call with Benny. It makes total sense.

[01:02:55] Benedikt: only do that though, if you're really interested in the, in the program, if that is an option you consider, [01:03:00] because I have only limited spots, limited time available. And at the moment, this is like no shit. Like we we're getting at the moment, dozens of applications every single week. So we're only accepting about, I have to look at my stats, I think 28, 30 percent or so of all applications.

And so please only do it if you're serious, if you at least consider working together. And then, we'll see if it's truly a great fit. But if that sounds like something you're interested in, please do that. And it's risk free, it's a completely free call. And if you don't decide that, or if we don't decide it's a great fit.

No problem. You get an hour of free coaching and a great roadmap that you can then apply otherwise. So,

[01:03:33] Malcom: There you go

[01:03:34] Benedikt: all right. That's been a lot. I hope this gets you thinking and gets you inspired. And I hope it helps you make plans for 2024. now as you hopefully sit down and like, think about what you want to do next for you and your band or your music project, and, just know that we don't.

You know, there's no judgment. We don't think that it's everyone has to invest a lot of money or a lot of like put in all the effort and like has to be super ambitious. No, it's totally fine. If you're just a [01:04:00] hobbyist enjoying this podcast, create music on your own. and, and, you know, that's totally fine.

I just know for a fact that a lot of people are telling me how important their music is to them. But their actions don't really match their ambitions, or at least they don't match what they're talking about. And so if that is you, if you have a feeling that could be true for yourself, sit down, do some thinking, do some planning, and then decide which way you want to go.

And if you're totally fine with where you are right now, awesome. We appreciate you as a listener. Keep listening, keep consuming our free stuff. We love you. and there's no judgment or anything, and we know that every situation is completely different. we're just so passionate about this and we are personally ambitious about this.

So. It's natural that we think about it like that, but, totally up to you, of course.

[01:04:43] Malcom: yeah. Yeah, like this episode was under the scope of hey, I want to make a record this year, you know, and okay That's what we want for you. But if that's not your goal It's fine

[01:04:52] Benedikt: Fine.

[01:04:53] Malcom: You know just figure out what your goal is. But then we really encourage you to make you know, make a resolution What are you gonna do this [01:05:00] year?

And then we want to see you actually do it and maybe if you've been listening to this podcast for the, like four years, it's now been, and you still haven't released any songs in that time that you self recorded, I'm

[01:05:11] Benedikt: Yeah,

[01:05:12] Malcom: calling you out.

[01:05:14] Benedikt: absolutely. And maybe for like the final thing here, for some extra accountability, once you've done your thinking, and like once you've sat down and thought about this for a little bit, or maybe you even know the answers to this, uh, if you're being honest to yourself, what about like commenting below this video on YouTube, telling us what your goal is for 2024, like what you're trying to do and how you think you can achieve it.

Or like leaving a review in your podcast app. And if you liked that podcast and that episode, if you found it helpful or any of the other episodes you've been listening to leave a review and put it in there, like what you, what your takeaway was from this, what your goal is, how you're trying to achieve this.

that's some extra accountability. It's still kinda, you know, depending on how you do it, kind of anonymous, but still you're putting it out there. It can be the first step to like, yes, I'm going to do this. I'm going to make a resolution. I'm gonna. [01:06:00] So yeah, let us know, put it in the comment below and then who knows a year from now, we hopefully hear from you again and then we see the results.

[01:06:07] Malcom: Yeah. I mean, if you want to be public about it, go to the Facebook community, post it there. And then maybe, you know, maybe if you find somebody else that's got the same goal, you guys can partner up for accountability and,

[01:06:17] Benedikt: totally.

[01:06:18] Malcom: keep tabs on each other.

[01:06:19] Benedikt: Exactly. All right. So, everyone, happy 

new year and we see you next year, 2024.

[01:06:27] Malcom: Yeah. Appreciate it. Take care.